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AF socket sets. Are they extinct

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clogs11/11/2018 12:44:57
477 forum posts
12 photos

Lazer tools make all kinds of AF tools........mine are used proff.....since my Snap-on stuff got stolen......

Lazer is part of K`amasa tool's Japan.......excellent products.....they have a base near Brum......

Mike Poole11/11/2018 12:56:30
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2186 forum posts
52 photos
Posted by Hopper on 10/11/2018 23:00:18:

Doesn't your British-made MG use BS/Whitworth sockets rather than AF? Or did they break with tradition in later years?

I think most of the British motor industry converted to SAE fastners then followed a conversion to metric for the 70’s, my Trident was still SAE and was built in 1974, I doubt that Triumph were keen on retooling for metric with the state of their finances. The MGB was painted and trimmed at Cowley and my first stop after leaving the training school was Q building where it was painted and trimmed, I think I still have a few UNF nuts and bolts kicking around from those days.

Mike

Alistair Robertson 111/11/2018 13:53:10
61 forum posts
6 photos

When I begun my apprenticeship I bought a Britool 1/2" socket set with BSW, BSF and A/F Sockets.

Some sockets were marked BSW, some BSF and others had BSW and BSF sizes on the same socket!

I never did work out what the relationship was as I had 3 different bolt size charts and they were all different!, so it was a case of "try it on and see"

I still have most of the sockets etc so I will look them out some day and see if I can work it out (or maybe not!)

I almost had a heart attack when I realised that I had paid almost £110 for the set.

My wages were about £8 a week then, so that is the equivalent of about £800 - £900 today or maybe more.

clogs11/11/2018 14:20:45
477 forum posts
12 photos

Alistair,

have u seen the price of Snap-On lately......make ur eye's water.......hahaha....

Mike Poole11/11/2018 15:40:21
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2186 forum posts
52 photos

Logic went out the window when head sizes were reduced on war finish machinery, sockets never had the sizes changed so what was written on the socket didn’t fit the fastener expected, BSF always had a smaller head.

Mike

ronan walsh11/11/2018 16:50:50
539 forum posts
32 photos

I always liked Gordon tools of Sheffield. Someone gave me a few of their spanners and sockets a few years ago, and while they are old, they are excellent.

larry phelan 111/11/2018 17:00:44
527 forum posts
11 photos

I could never understand why the AF system was not more widely used. It seemed to make a lot more sense than the Whit/Bsf system. You just measured the nut/bolt head,and you had the size required,simple as that,no arsing around.

That idea of One-and-a-half Dia+ 1/8" went out with the steam engine and the oil lamp.

I dont understand the Metric system any better. What is the relationship between a 6mm nut and a no 10 spanner,or a 12mm bolt and a no19 spanner ?

Answers on a postcard please.

Am now going for my tin hat,before the flak starts to fly !!!.cheekycheeky

ronan walsh11/11/2018 17:07:25
539 forum posts
32 photos

Well the metric is what you said the AF should be to imperial. 6mm threaded fastener, but a 10mm AF spanner.

Hillclimber11/11/2018 17:18:36
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156 forum posts
34 photos

Andrew, a word from the wise....

Dont get a 1/2" set. Nothing you need to do at the roadside requires anything that large. A 3/8" set will fit better in the boot. Everything in your MGB, by the way is A/F. I like Sears Craftsman stuff, but Kamasa is nice and Hilka is fine.

Then supplement your set with a Laser 4775. Accept no substitutes, as they say. Possibly the most useful tool I ever bought, after a big hammer and a roll of duct tape.

Cheers, Colin

Chris Evans 611/11/2018 21:51:30
1500 forum posts

+ 1 for Laser + I concur 3/8" drive is adequate for most work. You won't be torqueing up 150lbs at the roadside.

I have Whit/imperial A/F and metric stuff. About time a new system was introduced to make the youngsters buy all the different sizes like us olduns had to !

not done it yet11/11/2018 22:08:22
3548 forum posts
15 photos

Are metric spanner sizes not A/F, too? smiley

All my Britool sockets fit scross the flats of the relevant metric bolt heads! They just don’t always tie up with the same thread sizes and certainly not with the shank size!

I would always carry a 1/2” drive for wheel nuts/studs - and do away with the provided item in the car kit.

Nicholas Wheeler 111/11/2018 22:31:54
278 forum posts
16 photos
Posted by ronan walsh on 11/11/2018 17:07:25:

Well the metric is what you said the AF should be to imperial. 6mm threaded fastener, but a 10mm AF spanner.

That.

One of the things that make metric a pleasure to use is that there are no coded sizes that appear to have been created by a random number generator. Like number or letter drills, dash hose fittings, weird wire gauges or thread sizes.

Bill Phinn11/11/2018 22:56:52
211 forum posts
41 photos

Posted by not done it yet on 11/11/2018 22:08:22:

I would always carry a 1/2” drive for wheel nuts/studs - and do away with the provided item in the car kit.

Yes, I wouldn't want to have to try and remove wheel nuts that have been anywhere near the average highstreet or backstreet garage with either a 3/8 drive or the wrench supplied with the car. The wheelnuts on my Toyota Corolla are meant to be tightened to 104 N of torque, but the last time (four years ago) that my car had to go into a garage (after someone ran into the back of me) I couldn't budge any of my wheelnuts afterwards even with a 1/2" drive 16" long breaker bar. I suspect the impact wrenches garages now typically use are putting considerably more than 100N torque on most cars' wheel nuts.

I now carry a 900mm long breaker bar for roadside wheel changes.

Edited By Bill Phinn on 11/11/2018 22:57:56

Mark Rand12/11/2018 00:44:24
798 forum posts
Posted by larry phelan 1 on 11/11/2018 17:00:44:

I could never understand why the AF system was not more widely used. It seemed to make a lot more sense than the Whit/Bsf system. You just measured the nut/bolt head,and you had the size required,simple as that,no arsing around.

That idea of One-and-a-half Dia+ 1/8" went out with the steam engine and the oil lamp.

I dont understand the Metric system any better. What is the relationship between a 6mm nut and a no 10 spanner,or a 12mm bolt and a no19 spanner ?

Answers on a postcard please.

Am now going for my tin hat,before the flak starts to fly !!!.cheekycheeky

 

Ok, I'll chuck some flack in your (and other's) general direction:-

A fair amount of the machine tools in my shed and much of what I make have Whitworth and BSF threads. I have no difficulty in seeing what size spanner is needed for a given nut or bolt. Just as If I know it's going to be a unified (not 'AF' ) or metric thread I can see what size spanner to use. If it is not possible to see it, as on the back side of an in-situ motor car engine block, then one might need to try a few sockets to work out which one fits without any slack.

If you need to measure the bolt heads to work it out, the across flats dimensions of Whitworth bolts are readily available. There are even two British Standards listing them. Note the 'British Standard' bit of British Standard Whitworth and British Standard Fine!  angry

 

grumble, mutter...

Edited By Mark Rand on 12/11/2018 00:49:21

Hopper12/11/2018 02:54:44
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3774 forum posts
79 photos
Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 11/11/2018 22:31:54:
Posted by ronan walsh on 11/11/2018 17:07:25:

One of the things that make metric a pleasure to use is that there are no coded sizes that appear to have been created by a random number generator. Like number or letter drills, dash hose fittings, weird wire gauges or thread sizes.

Except that there are. I yesterday had to buy two new rollers for a sliding glass door on my house. What size? Well we converted to metric about 40 years ago. So they were a convenient and easy to remember 32mm roller with a 6.35mm axle. Said so right there on the package. Tell me it wasn't easier when we just had to remember we needed an inch-and-a-half roller with a one-quarter inch axle.

And it's not just door rollers, it's everything in the hardware store. Sheets of ply and other wood etc are a nominal 1.2m x 2.4m. Now that really makes life easier does it not? Much easier than trying to work out how many 4' x 8' sheets you need. Not. To complicate things ever further, the 1.2m x 2.4m is nominal only. The actual size as measured with a tape measure is 2.438m x 1.219m. Just happens to be exactly 8.00ft by 4.00ft.

The Yanks have the right idea with metric - let the pointy heads use it for their calculations while the rest of us get on with using the "customary measure" as they call it. Much more user friendly for both camps.

thaiguzzi12/11/2018 04:05:30
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597 forum posts
131 photos
Posted by Bill Phinn on 11/11/2018 22:56:52:

Posted by not done it yet on 11/11/2018 22:08:22:

I would always carry a 1/2” drive for wheel nuts/studs - and do away with the provided item in the car kit.

Yes, I wouldn't want to have to try and remove wheel nuts that have been anywhere near the average highstreet or backstreet garage with either a 3/8 drive or the wrench supplied with the car. The wheelnuts on my Toyota Corolla are meant to be tightened to 104 N of torque, but the last time (four years ago) that my car had to go into a garage (after someone ran into the back of me) I couldn't budge any of my wheelnuts afterwards even with a 1/2" drive 16" long breaker bar. I suspect the impact wrenches garages now typically use are putting considerably more than 100N torque on most cars' wheel nuts.

I now carry a 900mm long breaker bar for roadside wheel changes.

Edited By Bill Phinn on 11/11/2018 22:57:56

+1.

3/8" drive for everything else.

Geoff Theasby12/11/2018 04:11:55
595 forum posts
15 photos

If I were to nominate a mentor in engineering, I wouldn't start in the USA. With notable exceptions, their liking for big, slow, shiny-chrome motorcycles makes me weep. Their jet engines run roughly, and everything must be cheap. Cars have huge engines, rather than efficient ones, and they don't do 'small'.

Sorry, I'll be better shortly

martin perman12/11/2018 08:01:16
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1687 forum posts
70 photos
Posted by larry phelan 1 on 11/11/2018 17:00:44:

I could never understand why the AF system was not more widely used. It seemed to make a lot more sense than the Whit/Bsf system. You just measured the nut/bolt head,and you had the size required,simple as that,no arsing around.

That idea of One-and-a-half Dia+ 1/8" went out with the steam engine and the oil lamp.

I dont understand the Metric system any better. What is the relationship between a 6mm nut and a no 10 spanner,or a 12mm bolt and a no19 spanner ?

Answers on a postcard please.

Am now going for my tin hat,before the flak starts to fly !!!.cheekycheeky

the first is 4mm and the second is 7mm devil

Martin P

Hillclimber12/11/2018 16:04:34
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156 forum posts
34 photos

Posted by Bill Phinn on 11/11/2018 22:56:52:

I wouldn't want to have to try and remove wheel nuts that have been anywhere near the average highstreet or backstreet garage with either a 3/8 drive or the wrench supplied with the car.

Agree 115% with this. But does Andrew's MGB have wire wheels and knockoffs, I ask myself.....

Dave Halford12/11/2018 17:43:40
487 forum posts
4 photos
Posted by Bill Phinn on 11/11/2018 22:56:52:

Posted by not done it yet on 11/11/2018 22:08:22:

I would always carry a 1/2” drive for wheel nuts/studs - and do away with the provided item in the car kit.

Yes, I wouldn't want to have to try and remove wheel nuts that have been anywhere near the average highstreet or backstreet garage with either a 3/8 drive or the wrench supplied with the car. The wheelnuts on my Toyota Corolla are meant to be tightened to 104 N of torque, but the last time (four years ago) that my car had to go into a garage (after someone ran into the back of me) I couldn't budge any of my wheelnuts afterwards even with a 1/2" drive 16" long breaker bar. I suspect the impact wrenches garages now typically use are putting considerably more than 100N torque on most cars' wheel nuts.

I now carry a 900mm long breaker bar for roadside wheel changes.

Edited By Bill Phinn on 11/11/2018 22:57:56

That's what wheel nut spider wrenches are for smiley

Oh, and a big heavy rubber hammer for persuading modern alloys off the hub angry

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