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Lead Bearing Solder is Banned

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Brian Oldford08/11/2018 18:42:55
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Posted by Robert Atkinson 2 on 08/11/2018 17:57:33:

. . . . .The problem with lead free solder is tin whisker (crystal) growth that causes short circuits. Google it if you want to know more. There are exemptions for the use of leaded solder on high reliability applicatioons these include aerospace some network equipment and automotive. . . . . .

Robert.

ITYF railway signally equipment is also exempt too.

Tool08/11/2018 18:50:03
7 forum posts

Hi,

Bought 500g of 60/40 leaded solder about 2 minutes ago from Zoro.

I am now sitting here trembling waiting for the dreaded knock on he door.

I will have nearly 1 kg when this arrives which should see me out!

Tool

Russell Eberhardt08/11/2018 19:08:38
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Posted by Bazyle on 08/11/2018 17:41:45:

Russell, what is the French name for Yorkshire fittings?

I've not seen solder loaded ones but the plain copper ones would be "raccords à souder". They are normally silver soldered here, hence the easy availability of oxy acetylene gear in DIY stores.

Russell

Dave Halford08/11/2018 19:18:31
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Posted by Muzzer on 08/11/2018 17:32:43:

AFAIK it's actually illegal to use leaded solder on potable water joints in the UK and has been for some years. That doesn't stop you using it on central heating pipework where it's easier to get a sound joint on large diameter pipes. Illegal if you are a tradesman that is. They won't come and march you away if you are dumb enough to continue using leaded solder in your own house plumbing when there are good alternatives.

Murray

It seems a little OTT when almost every per 60's house in Britain has an average of 10M of lead pipe feeding the drinking water

Neil Wyatt08/11/2018 19:27:05
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Posted by Michael Gilligan on 08/11/2018 17:27:25:
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 08/11/2018 17:20:25:

If you follow your link, it's no more than 2.5% Pb...

.

dont know

Please Sir ... Is 2.5 less than 0.3 question

oops... sorry!

SillyOldDuffer08/11/2018 19:47:11
3414 forum posts
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Posted by Dave Halford on 08/11/2018 19:18:31:
Posted by Muzzer on 08/11/2018 17:32:43:

AFAIK it's actually illegal to use leaded solder on potable water joints in the UK...

Murray

It seems a little OTT when almost every per 60's house in Britain has an average of 10M of lead pipe feeding the drinking water

Perhaps that explains why so many of us are losing our marbles!

Samsaranda08/11/2018 20:00:24
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Does anyone know the composition of Carr’s Solder Paint, how much lead does it contain, if any .

Dave W

Kiwi Bloke 108/11/2018 20:14:10
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Crikey! Lots of churches have lead roofs. Think of the volume of toxic water run-off when it rains. No wonder the surrounding ground is usually full of dead people...

Michael Gilligan08/11/2018 20:19:20
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Posted by Kiwi Bloke 1 on 08/11/2018 20:14:10:

Crikey! Lots of churches have lead roofs. Think of the volume of toxic water run-off when it rains. No wonder the surrounding ground is usually full of dead people...

.

starBrilliant smiley

Michael Gilligan08/11/2018 20:23:25
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Posted by Samsaranda on 08/11/2018 20:00:24:

Does anyone know the composition of Carr’s Solder Paint, how much lead does it contain, if any .

.

Certainly some, if their web page is to be believed.

https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/carrs/soldering/soldercreams/c1040

MichaelG.

.

P.S.

Having never used it, I have to ask: What is so special about it to justify the price ?

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 08/11/2018 20:30:34

Ian S C09/11/2018 09:56:11
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There's been a bit in the paper, and on the radio/tv news about excess lead in some water taps being sold in NZ, how much lead do you get out of the kitchen tap? It's brass, and probably chrome plated.

What happens when someone dies because something banned was not used and it's replacement failed.

I suppose that these health and safety bloke have not found out that air is not good for you, everyone that breaths dies.

Ian S C

Adam Stevenson09/11/2018 10:47:26
7 forum posts

Wait till they find out how bad dihydrogen monoxide is, every one that comes into contact with it will die at some,point. Too little or too much you die.

Farmboy09/11/2018 10:52:21
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Posted by Kiwi Bloke 1 on 08/11/2018 20:14:10:

Crikey! Lots of churches have lead roofs. Think of the volume of toxic water run-off when it rains. No wonder the surrounding ground is usually full of dead people...

teeth 2

Totally off-topic, tenuous link : Someone in our local planning department must have a sense of humour. When they built the new police station in town someone specified copper sheeting for the roof nerd . . . I'll get me coat . . .

Mark Rand09/11/2018 11:00:00
581 forum posts

Considering that a third of a million tons of lead were introduced into the environment via tetraethyl lead in motor cars every year for a number of decades, any toxicity worries regarding solder are complete and utter paranoia. Similarly, the existence of lead water supply pipes is not a significant issue except in areas that have acidic water that hasn't been chlorinated. It should be noted that areas that do have acidic water use lime beds at the treatment works to reduce corrosion of the steel water mains and that chlorine injection is standard practice in the UK.

It isn't the mandarins in the EU, it's the typical British over-enthusiasm for implementing regulations For The Good Of The People.

Bah! Humbug!

SillyOldDuffer09/11/2018 12:15:34
3414 forum posts
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Posted by Mark Rand on 09/11/2018 11:00:00:

Considering that a third of a million tons of lead were introduced into the environment via tetraethyl lead in motor cars every year for a number of decades, any toxicity worries regarding solder are complete and utter paranoia. ...

It isn't the mandarins in the EU, it's the typical British over-enthusiasm for implementing regulations For The Good Of The People.

 

Bah! Humbug!

Solder isn't particularly toxic in use or in soldered joints. The problem comes later! When old electronics corrode in land-fill, lead compounds leach out into the water table, and eventually find their way back to us via food and drinking water. The process can take several decades. The risks aren't to individuals using solder, the risk is to the population later. Similar issue to my car. My little car isn't a pollution problem, it's the other 30,000,000 in the UK causing the trouble!

How serious a problem Lead in water pipes is depends mostly on how acid the water in your area is. Not so likely in the UK, but there are many good examples in the US. In Flint, Michigan, a slapdash decision to switch water supply to a cheaper source (an acidic local river requiring extra chlorination), caused lead to dissolve in the city's pipework on a large scale. Apart from long term ill-health, General Motors stopped making engines in Flint because the water damaged the parts leading President Trump to remark "It used to be that cars were made in Flint and you couldn't drink the water in Mexico. Now cars are made in Mexico, and you can't drink the water in Flint. That's terrible." Later, President Trump blocked publication of a report into 3000 other towns and cities in the US that may have similar problems with lead due to ageing pipes - it's a political hot potato. The cost of the Flint mistake will be over $1Bn and the 100,000 people who live there will be cooking with bottled water for another 6 years.

Bottom line with toxicity - you have to watch out for things that eventually affect large numbers of people as well as chemicals that are an instant and bleeding obvious hazard. It's an area where personal experience counts for little - you have to look at the statistics., and even they can be misleading.

Blaming Brussels is misunderstanding what's going on.  If it was EU madness, then the rest of the developed world wouldn't also be introducing similar restrictions.  Sadly we can't go back to the carefree days when a bit of pollution didn't matter.

Dave

 

 

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 09/11/2018 12:19:02

John Reese11/11/2018 02:39:27
562 forum posts

Here in the US lead bearing solder and leaded brass fittings are banned on potable water systems, and rightly so. We are not prohibited from using lead and leaded solder for other purposes. Our free machining steels contain lead.

We do have a few nutcase bureaucrats making idiotic rules. In California coffee must be labelled as possibly carcinogenic.

Hopper11/11/2018 05:14:02
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Posted by Adam Stevenson on 09/11/2018 10:47:26:

Wait till they find out how bad dihydrogen monoxide is, every one that comes into contact with it will die at some,point. Too little or too much you die.

Dangerous stuff. Remember the Titanic? The sooner it's removed from our oceans the safer they will be.

Speedy Builder511/11/2018 07:26:15
1589 forum posts
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Lead leaching back into the ground, where did lead come from in the first place ?

Russell Eberhardt11/11/2018 09:57:06
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Posted by Speedy Builder5 on 11/11/2018 07:26:15:

Lead leaching back into the ground, where did lead come from in the first place ?

Would we be here if it wasn't present? Interesting article:

**LINK**

Russell

Michael Gilligan11/11/2018 10:43:58
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11911 forum posts
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Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 11/11/2018 09:57:06:

[ ... ]

Would we be here if it wasn't present? Interesting article:

**LINK**

.

Very interesting, Russell ... thanks.

This line got me thinking [concurrently] about cholesterol problems and plastic water pipes:

[quote] Diets containing about 850 ppm of lead produced normal results. They found that piglets fed on a similar lead deficient diet even when allowed to feed ad libitum suffered from a 16% reduction in growth rate and there were abnormalities in the metabolisms of cholesterol, phospholipids, bile acids and also of sodium, potassium, zinc, copper and manganese. [/quote]

... Which is probably not something I have done before.

MichaelG.

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