By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by Allendale July 23rd

Model Electric Motors?

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
JasonB07/11/2018 12:10:02
avatar
Moderator
15773 forum posts
1650 photos
1 articles

I happened to be watching one of Gil Garceau's videos of the recent Coolsprings show and there was some footage of old electric motors. I have seen a few models of generators but not motors and thought that one could make an interesting subject.

The smaller motors and fan motors could be built 1:1 or something like the larger motor at the start would suit 1/4 scale.

Anyone think something like this would make an interesting project or have links to other models that I have not seen?

Video should start where the motors are but if not it's at about 16.30

Neil Wyatt07/11/2018 13:30:40
avatar
Moderator
16271 forum posts
679 photos
74 articles

Fair game, I would say. Nice details like the adjustable brush holder.

I think a few practical designs for electric motors appeared in early MEs.

XD 35107/11/2018 13:36:29
avatar
1296 forum posts
111 photos

Could make an interesting project and a bit of a change from the usual stuff model engineers tend to get into , the hard thing may be emulating the insulation on the windings as it looks like some sort of linen wrapping - looks a bit like litz wire only bigger although if you used enameled copper wire only the top layer would need the insulation for effect and maybe you could use the high temp woven stuff you see in stoves etc ? . I wonder if the patents are available so you can scale them correctly ?

The only models i have seen are usually of dynamos .

Ron Laden07/11/2018 14:09:58
avatar
1211 forum posts
198 photos

Yes Jason, I think they would make interesting projects, a bit of a challenge also.

If you look on youtube for " The history of electric motors" you should find a short video by a company who supply old electric motor kits, not that you would want a kit but have a look at the them. I watched it a while back and the mechanisms on them are fascinating and could give you some ideas.

Ron

p.s. have a look at this site Jason http://www.earlyelectricmotors.com/about/   open reproductions top right of page, some very nice motors there with makers names.

Edited By Ron Laden on 07/11/2018 14:41:25

Michael Gilligan07/11/2018 15:18:40
avatar
13571 forum posts
586 photos
Posted by XD 351 on 07/11/2018 13:36:29:

I wonder if the patents are available so you can scale them correctly ?

.

This search returned 500 results: **LINK**

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=electric+motor&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=18000101+%3A+19000101&PA=&IN=&CPC=&IC=

Sorry, I haven't got time to read them all

MichaelG.

XD 35107/11/2018 15:33:36
avatar
1296 forum posts
111 photos
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 07/11/2018 15:18:40:
Posted by XD 351 on 07/11/2018 13:36:29:

I wonder if the patents are available so you can scale them correctly ?

.

This search returned 500 results: **LINK**

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=electric+motor&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=18000101+%3A+19000101&PA=&IN=&CPC=&IC=

Sorry, I haven't got time to read them all

MichaelG.

😳

Should keep Jason busy for a few weeks making all of those !

Neil Wyatt07/11/2018 15:36:01
avatar
Moderator
16271 forum posts
679 photos
74 articles

Not cheap, but if your make a modest sized engine there's cotton covered wire here:

www.wires.co.uk/acatalog/dcc_wire.html

Artificial silk covered is even more expensive.

Neil

SillyOldDuffer07/11/2018 18:10:48
4535 forum posts
971 photos

Isn't making the core more difficult than authentic looking wire?

Motor cores were first made of soft iron, but soon switched to Silicon Steel. To reduce eddy losses the core should be laminated, which is usually done by stamping because Silicon Steel is hard to machine. You could probably get round that problem except Silicon Steel sheet doesn't seem to be sold in small quantities - minimum order 5 metric tons! Nor is soft iron easy to find. The laminations out of a transformer are the wrong shape, and reusing an existing motor core is, well, just a rewind, not a model.

On the subject of producing authentic cotton or silk insulated wire, a braiding machine would make an interesting model too. I've often thought it strange that model engineers tend to concentrate on engines when spinning, weaving, printers, Pascal calculators, Enigma machines and many other mechanical marvels are equally rewarding.

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 07/11/2018 18:12:13

XD 35107/11/2018 18:35:02
avatar
1296 forum posts
111 photos

I find this mechanism simply amazing !

**LINK**

Not only that but the mathematics, tools and skill these people had way back then simply stuns me !

Dave, the devils in the detail ! If you’re going to go to the trouble of building a scale model you don’t want to ruin it by taking shortcuts or leaving out the little details that really finish it off , its a bit like spending years building a model of traction engine then whacking a set of mag wheels on it because they were easy to fit !

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 08/11/2018 09:40:07

Tim Stevens07/11/2018 18:48:03
avatar
1049 forum posts

It should be possible to 'fake' cotton-covered windings, by using modern enamelled copper, completing the winding, and coating it with a layer of varnish (paint, etc) which is tinted or stained to mimic the appearance of cotton soaked in shellac varnish and then oil. I wonder if you would go to the trouble of using scale wire?

Cheers, Tim

And PS a dynamo and a motor of the same period will look identical, generally speaking.

Neil Wyatt07/11/2018 22:02:22
avatar
Moderator
16271 forum posts
679 photos
74 articles
Posted by XD 351 on 07/11/2018 18:35:02:

I find this mechanism simply amazing !

**LINK**

Not only that but the mathematics, tools and skill these people had way back then simply stuns me !

Dave, the devils in the detail ! If you’re going to go to the trouble of building a scale model you don’t want to ruin it by taking shortcuts or leaving out the little details that really finish it off , its a bit like spending years building a model of traction engine then whacking a set of mag wheels on it because they were easy to fit !

Err... that link is just trying to get me to give money to Clickspring...

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 08/11/2018 09:40:19

Michael Gilligan07/11/2018 22:52:13
avatar
13571 forum posts
586 photos
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 07/11/2018 22:02:22:
Posted by XD 351 on 07/11/2018 18:35:02:

I find this mechanism simply amazing !

**LINK**

[ ... ]

Err... that link is just trying to get me to give money to Clickspring...

Neil

.

That is an 'amazing mechanism' devil

MichaelG.

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 08/11/2018 09:40:30

XD 35108/11/2018 01:31:22
avatar
1296 forum posts
111 photos
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 07/11/2018 22:02:22:
Posted by XD 351 on 07/11/2018 18:35:02:

I find this mechanism simply amazing !

**LINK**

Not only that but the mathematics, tools and skill these people had way back then simply stuns me !

Dave, the devils in the detail ! If you’re going to go to the trouble of building a scale model you don’t want to ruin it by taking shortcuts or leaving out the little details that really finish it off , its a bit like spending years building a model of traction engine then whacking a set of mag wheels on it because they were easy to fit !

Err... that link is just trying to get me to give money to Clickspring...

Neil

Sorry that wasn’t my intention! Please edit my post to remove that link if possible .

Try this .

https://youtu.be/ML4tw_UzqZE

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 08/11/2018 09:40:41

JasonB08/11/2018 07:23:52
avatar
Moderator
15773 forum posts
1650 photos
1 articles

Well it looks like something along the lines of the Edison or C&C will get added to the future projects list and I did find something else while googling about for these that is likely to be made sooner rather than later.

Some do seem to have had the windings wrapped in thin cotton fabric and doped with presumably shelac so it would only be the exposed tails that would need suitable period insulation. I do use the cotton insulated two tone wires on the hit and miss engines and also a bit for work like the old twisted lighting flex. (If you want old look lighting components then try Urban Cottage Industries)

As XD says a lot of model engineers stick to the same subjects, over the last 18months or so I have enjoyed trying out a few things that are a bit different to the usual slide valve steam model or side shaft hit & miss. So far I think I have done a flame licker, oscillator, first propane powered, first hot tube ignition, epicyclic gearbox, hot air engine. I also have lined up a rocking valve steam engine, flame ignition non compression IC, star wheel 4-stroke rather than usual timing gears but have no fear there is not a loco on that list. smile p

Ron Laden08/11/2018 08:01:43
avatar
1211 forum posts
198 photos

Hi Jason,

I dont know if you looked at the pictures on the earlyelectricmotors.com link I posted, but I was really taken with the Bourbouze motor with its top beam and flywheel, I thought that a really nice piece of model engineering, though its obviously been done and you are probably looking for something fresh.

Ron

JasonB08/11/2018 08:06:12
avatar
Moderator
15773 forum posts
1650 photos
1 articles

Ron, I looked before you added your edit so will have a look at the other link now..

Ron Laden08/11/2018 08:36:06
avatar
1211 forum posts
198 photos
Posted by JasonB on 08/11/2018 08:06:12:

Ron, I looked before you added your edit so will have a look at the other link now..

Jason, if you go to videos on the site there is one of the Bourbouze running, very nice.

Michael Gilligan08/11/2018 08:36:58
avatar
13571 forum posts
586 photos
Posted by Ron Laden on 07/11/2018 14:09:58:

p.s. have a look at this site Jason http://www.earlyelectricmotors.com/about/ open reproductions top right of page, some very nice motors there with makers names.

Edited By Ron Laden on 07/11/2018 14:41:25

.

That's a great link, Ron yes

Thanks

MichaelG.

Brian H08/11/2018 10:08:24
avatar
1175 forum posts
86 photos

Does anyone do drawings or even kits for early electric motors?

Brian

JasonB08/11/2018 10:18:43
avatar
Moderator
15773 forum posts
1650 photos
1 articles

Kits from Ron's earlier link

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!

Find Model Engineer & Model Engineers' Workshop

Support Our Partners
Advertise With Us
Eccentric Engineering
Eccentric July 5 2018
Warco
Ausee.com.au
ChesterUK
Meridienne Sept 2019
TRANSWAVE Converters
Allendale Electronics
emcomachinetools
Subscription Offer

Latest "For Sale" Ads
Latest "Wanted" Ads
Get In Touch!

Do you want to contact the Model Engineer and Model Engineers' Workshop team?

You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.

Click THIS LINK for full contact details.

For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.

Digital Back Issues

Social Media online

'Like' us on Facebook
Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter
 Twitter Logo

Pin us on Pinterest