Daniel Grant | 04/11/2018 14:04:13 |
23 forum posts 7 photos | Hello all
I could really use some help understanding VFD’s. I have recently bought a Harrison 140 from a school and it runs on 3 phase, and 380v. The lathe came with a pillar drill that is also 3ph, but seems to run on either 220v or 380v.
Here are the questions I have:
Many thanks
Dan |
Daniel Grant | 04/11/2018 14:06:27 |
23 forum posts 7 photos | If it helps here is the info from the label on the motors:
Lathe motor:
Class E Frame: 66A Volts: 380-420 Ph:3 F.L Amps: 3.0 F.L speed : 1400 Hz: 50 Rating: cont Kw: 1.1
Pillar drill motor specs
Class: E Ph:3 Watts:250 F.L Amps : 1.2 or 0.7 A label that’s been worn reads : 240/420-460/ 1740 / 60hz Voltage: 220 or 380-420 F.L speed: 1440 |
John Haine | 04/11/2018 14:20:53 |
4630 forum posts 273 photos | When it says the lathe runs on 380V, that's the phase-phase voltage. Phase to neutral is 230V. You need to determine if the motor is star or delta connected - if it is star then it may be able to reconfigure the terminals for delta to run off a standard VFD. There is probably a covered terminal block on the motor, if you can remove the cover and take a photo and post it here we can say more. There is no problem using a VFD that can output more power than the motor needs. Usually there is a programmable current limit that can be set to match your motor. The pillar drill motor can probably be wired star or delta so you can run it from a standard VFD. Again a photo of the terminal block would help. |
Brian H | 04/11/2018 15:18:58 |
![]() 2312 forum posts 112 photos | Have a word with http://www.drivesdirect.co.uk/. Usual disclaimer but I found them very helpful and knowledgable with running my Alexanda T&C grinder which is fitted with a dual voltage motorBrian |
Jon | 04/11/2018 16:09:31 |
1001 forum posts 49 photos | 1.1kw seems very little on the 140, most are 2.2kw 3ph 400v.
Inverters do exist to run 400v from 1ph 240v, the way my M300 runs the last 8 years, but it will cost big time. |
john fletcher 1 | 04/11/2018 16:58:01 |
785 forum posts | Several of my friends bought Huanyang inverters and I wired them up, very easy. One lathe also came from a school and it to was a Harrison 140 nice machine. I made a remote such that they could us the existing controls. There is a thing on Utube showing some one doing the programming, which later I copied, to late for me as I had managed without. The motor terminal block was easy to alter, just moved the links and the coolant pump I wired a 4 micro farad capacitor across a pair of terminals, so now it runs from a 13 amp socket. I did wire a contactor BEFORE the inverter to give No-volt release. The capacitor was from an old fluorescent light fitting. Some of the inverts came from Leicester others from Germany. Be quick with Germany ! Nearly forgot ,inverters cost from £98 to £120 for the same thing and are still working 4 years later. John |
Neil Wyatt | 04/11/2018 17:32:33 |
![]() Moderator 18992 forum posts 734 photos 80 articles | The "Voltage: 220 or 380-420" means you can easily rewire it as delta or star. There should be moveable bars (and usually a sticker showing the arrangements) in the terminal box. Neil (Sorry for the SHOUTY font) |
Daniel Grant | 06/11/2018 20:41:48 |
23 forum posts 7 photos |
I
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not done it yet | 06/11/2018 22:04:34 |
6736 forum posts 20 photos | The lathe is wired star and the star point is inside the motor. Unless that star point can be broken and new leads brought out to those connections, it will require a 230 to 415 inverter. Likely cheaper to fit a new motor wired delta and buy a far cheaper 230V output VFD. The pillar drill can be changed to delta, by changing bridging strips, if wired star. It could then be run from a 230V output VFD. |
Kettrinboy | 07/11/2018 08:29:00 |
94 forum posts 49 photos | Your lathe looks to be a 140 and not an L5 , while the bed and carriage are similar looking between the two machines the headstock on a 140 is a different shape, ive got an L5 btw. regards Geoff |
john fletcher 1 | 07/11/2018 09:21:27 |
785 forum posts | I'll try and send you a copy of talk (the text) I gave to the club on what you are looking for. regarding altering the motor. John |
john fletcher 1 | 07/11/2018 09:33:07 |
785 forum posts | Back again Daniel, send me a PM, can't find how to contact you. It might be tomorrow now . John |
SillyOldDuffer | 07/11/2018 10:13:09 |
Moderator 8492 forum posts 1896 photos | Being electronic VFDs are likely to get more capable and/or cheaper over time. It pays to keep an eye on what's currently available because I was going to tell Dan what he wanted is a bit special and a bit expensive. Actually buying a suitable VFD appears to be much easier and less costly than it was last year! A couple of minutes on ebay found this cheap example for £94.99
Dave Edit: link to ebay got mangled. Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 07/11/2018 10:14:43 |
Daniel Grant | 08/11/2018 18:28:28 |
23 forum posts 7 photos | I think I’ll give Direct Drives a call tomorrow. Digging around on eBay I came across VFDs claiming to switch from single to 3 phase, and increase the voltage from 220 to 380 for £64. A compariable one from DirectDrives was almost 10 times the price, I’m a little concerned the eBay price has to be too good to be true! John - I’ve dropped you my E-mail address on a OM Thanks again for all your help. |
norm norton | 10/11/2018 11:19:56 |
183 forum posts 9 photos | Daniel The 140 is a lovely lathe - well done getting it. I hope you have got the tailstock as well and the big 4-jaw chuck that the school might have had. The 140 was Harrison's later, metric version of the LS5. I fitted a metric shaft 1.5kw 240c 3 phase motor to mine. I just cannot remember if I had to modify the pulley bore. I have feeling it went straight on the new motor. The motor fitted the existing lathe frame with just some 2" sleeves and longer bolts to raise the motor. This all suggests that Harrison had fitted a modern spec motor. Measure your existing motor's shaft diameter. I went to Newton Tesla and bought the motor, Mitsubishi VFD and a dongle controller together. It will cost you bit more than shopping around on eBay but you will have a nice system with start/stop, forward/reverse, jog/run and speed all on the controller in front of you. If budget is an issue then go it alone but you need to be confident in your abilities in programming and handling hefty voltage wiring. You MUST NOT start/stop the motor by breaking the supply into or out of the VFD. Wire the VFD directly to the motor and do not use any of the Harrison control switches. I actually fitted a 2-pole motor (rather that the usual 4-pole) as it gives me the possibility of double the usual lathe speed. The 140s were built for it and you can get front plates that show the doubled gearbox RPM. To be honest I rarely use the higher speed, but I do run the lathe a half motor speed most all of the time and it is much quieter. The motor is perfectly happy for the usual light and moderate load jobs. You can get some extra change wheels and will be able to cut all the imperial threads directly from that metric gearbox. Edited By norm norton on 10/11/2018 11:22:31 |
Nigel Bennett | 10/11/2018 11:47:43 |
![]() 456 forum posts 20 photos | Speak to the chaps at Transwave - advert on the right somewhere. Really helpful guys who know their stuff. I've bought two VFDs off them for a S7 and a Boxford 280. I've also heard good words from Newton Tesla as Norm says above. |
Ian P | 10/11/2018 12:32:02 |
![]() 2578 forum posts 114 photos | Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 07/11/2018 10:13:09:
Being electronic VFDs are likely to get more capable and/or cheaper over time. It pays to keep an eye on what's currently available because I was going to tell Dan what he wanted is a bit special and a bit expensive. Actually buying a suitable VFD appears to be much easier and less costly than it was last year! A couple of minutes on ebay found this cheap example for £94.99
Dave Edit: link to ebay got mangled. Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 07/11/2018 10:14:43 Surely the picture shows the input voltage range, If it generates 380V from 220 its the bargain of the century! Ian P |
Daniel Grant | 04/01/2019 15:32:43 |
23 forum posts 7 photos | Two months on and I’m still not there with this lathe! Since the last post I have bought a 2.2kw (3hp) VFD which incorrectly claimed to increase the voltage to 380v. I then bought a single phase 2hp motor, but it vibrated so much on the bench tools fell off the wall! Yesterday I collected a 3hp, 3 phase motor with the view to use it with the VFD. Unfortunately when connected tthe VFD it turns a couple of revolutions then spits out an Error 1 code (short circuit / current overload) I checked the resistance between U1-U2, V1-V2 and W1-W2 and they were all between 2.1 and 2.4 ohms. There was no connection between U,V or W or to the casing. Any thoughts on what could be happening? When I went to view we weren’t able to get the motor running using a 220v supply and capacitor, or by connecting U to Live and V and W to Neutral without the capacitor, because of this the chap I was buying from gave it to me for free, so I’m not too concerned about opening it up if necessary. Below is the current configuration of the bridging bars Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks Dan |
John Haine | 04/01/2019 16:27:40 |
4630 forum posts 273 photos | Looks like it's delta connected as it needs to be. The winding resistances are really irrelevant except that they all about the same and there isn't a short to the frame. The current is determined by the winding inductance, not DC resistance. Quite possibly the current limit on the VFD is being triggered by the startup inrush of the motor, it would need properly configuring to set this up. Looks like a good find for free! |
Pete Rimmer | 04/01/2019 16:43:45 |
1219 forum posts 63 photos | It's very unlikely that there's a fault in that motor. You probably need to alter some parameters in the VFD. Do you have a link to the online manual? |
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