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Another new mill

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Martin Shaw 101/11/2018 14:29:06
103 forum posts
32 photos

Regular readers will know of Ron and his new to him SX2P, which he bought from me. I am pleased to see he's getting on with it ok, it's a massive learning game starting fron scratch.

A beneficial change in my circumstances has enabled me to contemplate an SX2.7, the machine I would have bought 18 months ago if finance had allowed, and practically the biggest I can get into my workshop. I made a visit to Arc yesterday to discuss the whole matter and look at the machine. Ketan very generously spent a considerable time showing me around and explaining something of the philosophy behind his approach to business, as well as discussing specific matters and Ian in his charming avuncular way translated the conversation into an order and relieved me of a large sum. It's all arriving next week.

The subject of DROs came up, and Arc to their credit suggested magnetic scales from Machine DRO would be a better bet than their own optical scales, do others agree? Additionally the SX2.7 comes with a quill depth readout so choices, fit a 2 way display and XY scales, fit a 3 way display but still only fit XY scales pending usage determining the need for a Z scale, or, go the whole hog at the start. Any views bearing in mind that there isn't a vast sum between the options.

You will gather from the above I have a great regard for Arc, they are easy to do business with, normal diclaimer applies.

Regards

Martin

Mark Elen 102/11/2018 09:05:41
107 forum posts
179 photos

Hi Martin,

I bought the SX3 from ARC about a year ago now. I had a similar experience with Ketan and Ian, both great guys. I also purchased their 3 axis DRO with scales at the same time.

Very soon afterwards, I had the X and Y scales fitted and working, but I still haven't got around to fitting the Z. I tend to use the inbuilt quill DRO for Z work, at some point I'm going to need the Z scale fitting, its just I haven't had the need for it yet.

If I were to undertake the same thing now, I would probably go for the miniature magnetic scales and couple them with a LED display. (the scales purely for the reduced size, the display is just bling)

In the photo below, you can see the size of the cover I had to make to protect the glass scales on the back of the table. There is plenty of room for the glass scales, on all three axis, but I feel the smaller scales would 'look better'. (I shamlessly copied the mounting bracketry that was on the mill in ARCs showroom)

image.jpeg

I'm still really just a beginner, so bear that in mind reading the above.

Cheers

Mark.

not done it yet02/11/2018 09:56:00
3029 forum posts
11 photos

It is often a bit of a quandary as to which side to fit the long travel reader. Behind, and one may lose some cross travel (it looks like Mark’s vise is his limiting factor, when it is in use), or if at the front one loses the use of stops or is a little more at risk from heavy workpieces.

I prefer the front side for both my mills as the cross travel often seems to be the bigger problem when machining. Possibly an exaggerated problem for me, as both mill tables have only two T-slots.

I would go for all three axes.  My Centec has four and I use them all.

Edited By not done it yet on 02/11/2018 09:58:12

Brian Wood02/11/2018 10:16:05
1910 forum posts
37 photos

Hello Martin,

When I was faced with the question on how I wanted to set up DRO scales on my Dore-Westbury mill I chose an X Y display with the inclusion of a Pitch Circle Diameter [PCD] function instead of a 3rd axis measuring the quill movement.

As advised, that was a good choice and has proved to be most useful. A cheap caliper type display giving the vertical scale was added very soon after and is perfectly adequate

My experience for what it is worth


Brian

Edited By Brian Wood on 02/11/2018 10:18:06

JasonB02/11/2018 10:59:30
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Moderator
15538 forum posts
1594 photos
1 articles

I bough X&Y scales with a 3 way display when I did my X3 and added the Z scale about 6 months later thoght the X3 doe snot have the fitted quill scale.

There is masses of space at the back of the table on the SX2.7 as it goes back well beyond the spindle which is handy for milling long edges that can overhang the table.

ChrisH02/11/2018 11:19:39
817 forum posts
12 photos

Martin,

optical or magnetic scales? Personal choice I'd say. I bought Arc's cheap and cheerful 'entry level' (how I hate that term) DRO and scales (like grown up digital caliper type scales) and I am now regretting not saving up a lot more dosh and getting a better DRO kit - they are quite limited in what they'll do and don't always operate very smoothly I've found.

I was thinking optical but now, as Arc has suggested, going for either Machine-Dro Dro kit with magnetic scales or the very similar EMS Dro kit with magnetic scales, possible the latter as they claim to to have the smallest head scales in the UK and I got a good feeling when discussing this with them recently. I'm looking at a 3 axis kit for my mill, just the odd £500+ spend to try and justify and get past the Financial Director to surmount now! I'm not holding my breath!!

Chris

Edited By ChrisH on 02/11/2018 16:41:38

peak402/11/2018 12:32:09
avatar
751 forum posts
65 photos
Posted by not done it yet on 02/11/2018 09:56:00:

It is often a bit of a quandary as to which side to fit the long travel reader. Behind, and one may lose some cross travel (it looks like Mark’s vise is his limiting factor, when it is in use), or if at the front one loses the use of stops or is a little more at risk from heavy workpieces.

I prefer the front side for both my mills as the cross travel often seems to be the bigger problem when machining. Possibly an exaggerated problem for me, as both mill tables have only two T-slots.

I would go for all three axes. My Centec has four and I use them all.

Edited By not done it yet on 02/11/2018 09:58:12

Any chance of a quick photo of how you fitted your DRO to the Centec please.

When I bought my Warco 720 (Myford Super 7 copy) it came with an unfitted, still boxed kit, obviously 2 axis only.

I've still not got round to fitting it to a lathe yet, but thought it would probably be of more use on my Centec, also with the swivelling head.

I've got an, as new, but used Warco 1330 arriving Monday, so was pondering on getting a bolt on DRO kit for that from Warco and having one on that and the other on a mill; I also have a Dore Westbury if anyone has photos of a DRO on one of those.

I appreciate that a 3 axis would be better on a mill, but I've got what I've got, though a possibility would be to get a 3 axis Warco head with 2 scales for the 1330 and a spare for the Centec Z axis, and use that head on the mill, and my existing readout on the lathe, if the scales I already have are compatible.

Bill

Martin Shaw 102/11/2018 12:37:23
103 forum posts
32 photos

Thanks for all your thoughts, you have tended to confirm my thinking. As it is I spoke to M DRO this morning and we have agreed that their 3 axis dro kit is the most cost effective, even if I don't initially fit the Z axis, so I ordered it. Delivered for a tad under £500 I think it will suit well. Boss is currently away so no problem in that direction.

Regards

Martin

not done it yet02/11/2018 13:47:05
3029 forum posts
11 photos

Peak4,

The complete set up was on the mill before I got it. Alan had done a good job.

It was simply a matter of replacing the kit after I installed the mill, as I had need to dismantle quite a bit - well, nearly all of it! - to make parts handleable by one person. I accepted the already drilled and tapped holes but I did (momentarily) consider if I should change it around.

My preference is arrived at because I often find I need to drive the table as close to the column as possible to get the maximum coss travel possible. As an aside, the long travel would have been just about sufficient for all my needs, except for the ~40mm lost travel due to the power feed. The fourth digi readout (on the quill) is quite useful at times.

Send me a PM if you need any more info. Have to break and reseal the covers to get any sensible pics, I think.

geoff walker 102/11/2018 14:30:54
297 forum posts
125 photos

You will gather from the above I have a great regard for Arc, they are easy to do business with, normal disclaimer applies.

Hi Martin, couldn't agree more, every purchase of mine from ARC has been spot on in all respects.

I would imagine my purchase today, a Seig sx2p mill, will also meet those same standards.

Well I just had to have one!!!! My vertical slide days are over, at last, yipeeeee!!!!!!

Geoff

Ian Hewson02/11/2018 14:59:04
259 forum posts
24 photos

img_0938.jpegimg_0938.jpegimg_0937.jpegimg_0935.jpegHi Peak4

Fitted the magnetic scale from M-DRO, bought last year at discount price during the Midlands show when Warco could not be bothered as they chatted to old friends.

Works very well, mounted on a peice of gauge plate at the rear, plenty of scale track to cut to size.

img_0934.jpeg

peak402/11/2018 15:32:58
avatar
751 forum posts
65 photos

Many thanks to Ian and NDIY, I'll dig out the box of bits and have a ponder.

Bill

Ron Laden02/11/2018 16:01:56
1114 forum posts
174 photos
Posted by geoff walker 1 on 02/11/2018 14:30:54:

You will gather from the above I have a great regard for Arc, they are easy to do business with, normal disclaimer applies.

Hi Martin, couldn't agree more, every purchase of mine from ARC has been spot on in all respects.

I would imagine my purchase today, a Seig sx2p mill, will also meet those same standards.

Well I just had to have one!!!! My vertical slide days are over, at last, yipeeeee!!!!!!

Geoff

I dont think you will be disappointed Geoff, as you have maybe seen from the start of this thread I have Martins ex SX2P, it is only 18 months old and like new. I am a beginner but already I can see it opening up all new horizons when it comes to model engineering. Enjoy it when it arrives.

Ron

geoff walker 102/11/2018 16:25:39
297 forum posts
125 photos

I dont think you will be disappointed Geoff, as you have maybe seen from the start of this thread I have Martins ex SX2P, it is only 18 months old and like new. I am a beginner but already I can see it opening up all new horizons when it comes to model engineering. Enjoy it when it arrives.

I will Ron, I will.

I am planning to bench mount it but having seen the stand that is available from Arc I am having second thoughts. I'll see how it looks on the bench first.

Do you have the stand Ron? or anyone else?

Geoff

Ron Laden02/11/2018 16:30:30
1114 forum posts
174 photos

No I bench mounted mine Geoff, I have a bench which is up against the wall and is only 15 inch deep and it just seemed perfect for the SX2.

Ron

Mark Elen 102/11/2018 17:02:33
107 forum posts
179 photos

Hi Geoff,

I’ve got the stand for my SX3, it’s just the right height for me. Nice piece of kit. I’ve got the stand bolted to the concrete floor using rawlbolts.

Cheers

Mark

Edited By Mark Elen 1 on 02/11/2018 17:03:00

Martin Shaw 102/11/2018 21:19:50
103 forum posts
32 photos

Hi Geoff

The SX2P is a great wee machine, I expect you'll have fun with it, I certainly did when I had one. A couple of pointers if I may, keep the Z axis gibs snug which benefits changes in head height, if they are too loose the head can decide to take charge which is irritating. Secondly the X and Y locking screws are M4 cap head screws requiring an allen key to operate, they are fiddly and rapidly annoying beyond belief. Go to the Wixroyd website and they will sell you suitable Bristol lever screws, if I remember correctly a 20mm for the Y and a 25mm for the X, it makes operation much sweeter.

Martin

geoff walker 103/11/2018 08:32:36
297 forum posts
125 photos

Hi Gents,

Thank you for your replies and also, Mark, Martin, the advice and information.

All duly noted.

Geoff

Martin Shaw 107/11/2018 21:48:41
103 forum posts
32 photos

Hi Chaps

The new machine arrived today, as well as some other goodies, what I don't fully understand despite my 65 years is the almost childlike joy of a new toy. It is as unpacked and still covered in Chinese gloop whilst I contemplate the method of installing it in the attic workshop, some dismantling will obviously be necessary, and probably some neighbours sons with the offer of free beer may oblige. It's also bl***y big, far more than it looked in Arc's showroom last week.

Regards

Martin

img_0619.jpg

geoff walker 108/11/2018 13:33:18
297 forum posts
125 photos

Hi Martin,

Your mill looks good, enjoy it!!

Mine arrived yesterday as well.

Fresh out of the crate and after a quick inspection all looks good. It's heavy, I like that.

I was aware the mill has some "issues" e.g. the sprung arm to steady the head and the amount of play in the fine feed.

The first one, I may at some time replace the arm with a gas strut and the second, well I would like to add DRO's to the mill so that should resolve that issue. Not just yet though let's do some modelling first!

Geoff

img_3595.jpg

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