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Carbide threading inserts.

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Robin Graham06/10/2018 22:25:25
577 forum posts
126 photos

I want to make some M16x1.5 (ie metric fine) internal threads and have been looking for a suitable tool. I came across this **LINK**

Seems like a (suspiciously!) good deal - 16 quid for the tool and ten inserts.The inserts are designated 11IR A60. That meant nothing to me, but looking at the ISCAR website, I see "Internal 60° partial profile, laydown threading inserts. IR/L - Ground periphery and rake."

I guess they'll do what I want, but can anyone tell me what 'partial profile, laydown' means?

Robin.

Michael Gilligan06/10/2018 23:27:56
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13823 forum posts
603 photos

Robin,

I recall that Andrew Johnston kindly gave an explanation of 'full profile' vs 'partial profile'

**LINK**

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=137131

Hope that's some help.

MichaelG.

JasonB07/10/2018 06:14:05
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Moderator
16045 forum posts
1684 photos
1 articles

Just be aware that tip quality can vary, last time I bought a "bargain" holder and 10 tips the tips were pants, ended up getting some decent tips that cost many times more but they made an unusable tool usable.

jimmy b07/10/2018 06:54:42
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501 forum posts
28 photos
Posted by JasonB on 07/10/2018 06:14:05:

Just be aware that tip quality can vary, last time I bought a "bargain" holder and 10 tips the tips were pants, ended up getting some decent tips that cost many times more but they made an unusable tool usable.

Very good point Jason!

I had some from Ebay a few weeks ago, total rubbish, clearly reject items!!

**LINK** are my choice for inserts usually.

Jim

John Haine07/10/2018 07:17:22
2591 forum posts
133 photos

I got a very nice internal threading holder and tips from JB at a show last year.

**LINK**

Old School07/10/2018 07:31:11
241 forum posts
8 photos

I use APT for inserts and holders not the cheapest but very good quality, deliver is quick.

JES07/10/2018 08:08:11
67 forum posts
48 photos

I bought the self same set the other week and I am entirely satisfied with it.

JES

John MC07/10/2018 08:26:40
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173 forum posts
24 photos

i am not going to recommend a tip or holder other than suggest the OP gives the low cost far eastern tooling a try. A few years ago the tips were hopeless, but now I find them entirely satisfactory as are the holders.

I am told by a production engineer that what lets them down are the manufacturing tolerances on both tip and holder, important for him when consistency is vital but of no consequence to us, mostly.

He also found that tip life was slightly reduced, something like 90% of what was expected of a high quality tip. Again, for us, of little consequence.

John

Roderick Jenkins07/10/2018 08:47:36
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1776 forum posts
456 photos

To get back to the original question...

As far as I can make out, the "laydown" bit simply refers to the tip lying flat like a ccmt tip rather than on one edge like a parting tip. Am I right?

Rod

Robin Graham07/10/2018 20:48:14
577 forum posts
126 photos

Thanks for replies - the pics from Andrew Johnston in the thread MichaelG pointed to make the full/partial profile thing clear. I'll go for the KKmoon set bearing in mind the caveats about cheapo stuff - but JES found the inserts OK, so maybe it's a good deal. If so, ten three sided tips will see me out!

Still wondering about 'laydown' though - is Rod right, and if so (or not) what would the alternative(s) be for a threading tool?

Robin

Roderick Jenkins07/10/2018 21:02:27
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1776 forum posts
456 photos

The alternative is perhaps like these.

Rod

JasonB08/10/2018 06:50:41
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Moderator
16045 forum posts
1684 photos
1 articles

Lay down ones lay flat on the holder or sometimes a shim and the alternative are "On Edge" inserts

Robin Graham08/10/2018 20:53:38
577 forum posts
126 photos

Thanks Jason, I didn't know about the 'on edge' system, all is now clear.

Robin

Lynne21/11/2018 23:25:58
62 forum posts
23 photos

Has anyone found whitworth external form inserts on the Banggood site. I can only find metric. Lynne

Neil Lickfold22/11/2018 18:23:46
562 forum posts
102 photos

From Koroloy out of Korea. Really good stuff also. These are not cheap, but do work very well. With care the inserts last a very long time. Have not found the full form inserts, but they do have partial form inserts in 60 deg and 55 deg, and there are the internal grooving inserts that can be made into the geometry you desire. The sizing is the minimum bore diameter . You can fit an 11 mm insert onto the 8mm holder. Just requires a shaped washer and a longer screw to do so. I have the 8mm carbide holder and the 14mm carbide holder, but have inserts from all 4 ranges. The holders are not cheap for the carbide, but is more rigid than the steel in the smaller 8mm one, which is about 5.8mm shank for the insert side. The 8mm is on a 12mm shank, the 14mm is on a 16mm shank. Both will fit on a Myford S7 Dixson holder. I did recut a holder to accept the 16mm shank, by cutting the upper portion of the block making the opening 16.1 mm from the 13mm that it was.

https://www.cutwel.co.uk/lathe-tools/multifunctional-lathe-tools/fine-tool-internal-grooving-system

Andrew Tinsley22/11/2018 19:13:25
911 forum posts

Thanks for the tip on the 55 degree Whitworth form. I gave up looking on the assumption that carbide tips and Whitworth were not compatible!!!!!!!

Andrew,

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