By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by Allendale Until July 27th

Part built Allchin 1.5 inch

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
Clive Brown 129/12/2018 09:15:42
234 forum posts
7 photos

Derek,

I fully agree with virtually all of Paul's points above. The only point where I would differ is the suggested time.For the work that you are asking about, machining of the cylinder block, liner, covers, valve chest, valves etc and also the trunk guide and bracket would, IMO, take very much longer than Paul's suggestion of 8-10 hours min.

This work can however be readily carried out with fairly basic workshop facilities centred around a small lathe equipped with a vertical slide. Bill Hughes excellent ME series and also his book on Allchin construction go into great detail on achieving good results with just such limited equipment. Many constructors, including myself, have trodden this path.

My suggestion is therefore to obtain Hughes' written description in one form or another and consider whether to DIY.

Edited By Clive Brown 1 on 29/12/2018 09:17:42

derek blake29/12/2018 12:33:56
327 forum posts
97 photos

Hi Paul

Thank you for your very detailed comment, working as a Technician for one of the worlds best hi-fi company’s Naim Audio I’m very aware of how much machine jobs can cost and am constantly shocked on what we have to pay for what looks like a very quick process.

However when it comes to cylinder machining I’m also aware of the time it takes to set everything up, I’ve been quoted £600 which I actually think is pretty fair.

I only asked on here if anyone was interested in doing the work for the only reason that some people enjoy the challenge and maybe looking to earn some extra cash for the new year.

It’s the old saying if you don’t ask you don’t get, it wasn’t to try and get something done on the cheap.

Many thanks for your input.

I will upload more pictures of progress in due course.

Derek

Edited By derek blake on 29/12/2018 12:34:38

derek blake03/01/2019 21:12:01
327 forum posts
97 photos

Happy new year to you all.

Christmas has come and gone but a little more work done on the cylinder, I still intend to send away for boring and steam hole drilling’s as I’m not skilled enough for that part nor do I have the right size lathe, however I have pretty much finished the trunk guide etc.dbfa74be-9cba-4f09-b76b-9d5e146f16b5.jpeg

derek blake03/01/2019 21:13:21
327 forum posts
97 photos

77c29aaf-893d-4eed-97f9-e67cf53b1d36.jpeg

Jon Lawes03/01/2019 21:27:51
avatar
308 forum posts

That's looking superb. I can't help but think if you are skilled enough to do that its not a big leap to do the boring etc.

By the way is Naim still in Salisbury? I work just over the hill in Amesbury.

derek blake03/01/2019 21:34:34
327 forum posts
97 photos

Hi Jon

That’s very kind, I just don’t have the right size lathe and to be honest I’m not totally sure how the bore should be and I’d the steam annulus needs boring into the casting before the liner etc.

Yes Naim is on Southampton road in Salisbury

regards

Derek

Paul Kemp04/01/2019 00:27:21
283 forum posts
9 photos

Derek,

I would second Jon's comments, looks like you have made a very nice job of the parts you have done, in a relatively short time too. Don't forget you don't have to mount the cylinder in a chuck or on a faceplate but you can mount it on the cross slide of your lathe to do the bore. If final dimension of the bore in the casting is a worry you can make it a nominal size and turn the OD of the liner to suit! Steam port drillings between the port and the cylinder can be fraught! I am just about to embark on that job on my 6" scale cylinder in the next week or so. I am planning to make a jig to assist in getting the angle right. As Jon says looking at the rest of the parts you have done you shouldn't have any trouble doing the cylinder, just take your time and think it through. Size of available machinery can be a problem but I managed to make the complete water pump for my 6" between a mini mill, Hobbymat and an ML7, where there is a will there is a way! You can put the £600 you save towards a bigger lathe for the next project!!

Paul.

JasonB04/01/2019 07:11:05
avatar
Moderator
15528 forum posts
1594 photos
1 articles

Unfortunately mounting on the cross slide and using a between ctrs bar won't really work in this case as the anulus needs to be bored out larger in the middle so that steam can pass around the liner and up to the regulator, apart from that it is a good way to do it.

If it can be done on a vertical slide then it is possible to move the casting up, down and sideways while the bar in spinning in the casting and produce a lobed anulus but needs care to not put too much of a cut on in one go. Or a boring head can be used as per the book.

Edited By JasonB on 04/01/2019 07:17:03

derek blake04/01/2019 08:42:57
327 forum posts
97 photos

Hi Guys

Many thanks for your comments, Paul your comments are very kind and I think you are right if I had the correct setup I probably could try and machine myself.

however if I was to attempt in on my small lathe id have to make up a fitting jig especially to hold some studs etc for clamping, nothing I couldn't do but as Jason says I have no movement for the steam annulus.

I just don't feel confident enough to risk ruining the casting, and with the work ive done on the trunk guide and front back covers I may reduce that £600 quote.

many thanks for taking the time to respond, I will update when ive moved on to the next stages.

Regards,

Derek

derek blake06/01/2019 18:02:12
327 forum posts
97 photos

Good afternoon

just a quick question, if I decide to try and bore the cylinder myself I’d at least like to understand how it’s to be done, looking at the attached drawing and the annulus, would some of you drill the steam port with the liner left out? I would imagine this would be safer so you don’t drill into it.

im not sure I will be able to set my lathe up to do it yet but it’s still interesting to know how things should be made.

Kind regards

Derek

derek blake06/01/2019 18:04:04
327 forum posts
97 photos

91e26c14-4932-4cf6-81bf-9d0073ba3ae6.jpeg

JasonB06/01/2019 18:31:07
avatar
Moderator
15528 forum posts
1594 photos
1 articles

I would drill it after the liner is fitter as the holes pass through both, as you will need drilling in from the ends you should not have any problems with the drill going astray.

Mill the ports before drilling then you can feel/see when the holes meet them rather than risk drilling too deep and joining up with the exhaust.

The hole up from the saddle and the angled hole to the regulator should be drilled before fitting the liner

derek blake06/01/2019 18:35:54
327 forum posts
97 photos

Thanks Jason that pretty much lined up with what I was thinking especially the holes from the saddle as these were the specific ones I meant.

Many thanks.

derek blake06/01/2019 19:27:29
327 forum posts
97 photos

Hi Jason

I understand how to bore a basic through hole but how do you bore the bigger hole down inside the core of the cylinder, is the adjustment made on the cross slide when at the correct depth?

Many thanks

JasonB06/01/2019 19:36:30
avatar
Moderator
15528 forum posts
1594 photos
1 articles

What method of boring are you intending to use?

derek blake06/01/2019 19:47:46
327 forum posts
97 photos

I think I’d have to clamp the cylinder to the crossslide I guess with the small lathe I have.

JasonB06/01/2019 20:02:12
avatar
Moderator
15528 forum posts
1594 photos
1 articles

If you set it op with what will be the rear of the cylinder facing the chuck then you can do the main bore with a between ctrs boring bar and also fly cut the end of the cylinder so that the cover goes on nice and true to the bore.

To do the annulas really needs a change to a boring head where you can put on a couple of thou cut and rotate the cutter round by hand then start the lathe and traverse along and back and keep repeating that which is the way Hughes suggests doing it in his book.

Paul Kemp07/01/2019 00:43:40
283 forum posts
9 photos

Derek,

This is a bit like watchmaking to me with the size of the cylinder! However considering that the actual diameter of the annulus is not critical within a few thou and the surface finish is also relatively unimportant your main considerations are making it big enough to get sufficient steam flow without conflicting with the drillings. If you don't have a boring head you could in a rough and ready way replicate Jason's suggestion with careful use of a four jaw chuck. If you mount a decent square shank boring bar in the chuck you can advance it with careful adjustment of two opposing jaws on the chuck. As I said a bit rough and ready but if you are careful and take it slow you can use Jason's suggested method of doing the cut and advance the tool in the jaws. There is another way of making a boring bar with a tool you can advance with a tapered screw in from the end under the toolbit but that would be more difficult with the small size of the hole. Half the challange (and fun) of making these things is finding a way to do it with whatever resources you have. I have had a bit to do with in situ machining to repair large Diesel engines and line boring of bushes on ships and steam engines in the past and it's surprising the results you can get with some really Heath Robinson equipment in terms of accuracy and finish!

Paul.

JasonB07/01/2019 06:56:45
avatar
Moderator
15528 forum posts
1594 photos
1 articles

I've just thought of another way it could be done.

If you change the boring bit of your between ctrs boring bar to a more pointed one you can gradually offset the tailstock a bit at a time which will make the tool swing a slightly larger radius. Then just proceed as with the boring head little tailstock feed, cut back and forth then put on another cut and so on

If you can't offset your tailstock or don't have a boring head to fit it then a home made centre in the 4-jaw can be offset instead of the tailstock as Paul describes.

Edited By JasonB on 07/01/2019 06:58:42

JasonB07/01/2019 08:37:37
avatar
Moderator
15528 forum posts
1594 photos
1 articles

The other method I mentioned earlier if the cylinder were on a vertical slide so that after boring to 1.25" you just move it up, down, in and out by 1/16" to get a 4 lobed cut would work quite well. I have sketched it out and there is very little loss of cross sectional area so a viable option. I suppose if you did not have a vertical slide you could do front and back at the same set up on the cross slide as the main bore and then rotate the casting 90 degrees and repeat to get the 4 offsets.

anulus.jpg

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!

Find Model Engineer & Model Engineers' Workshop

Support Our Partners
Eccentric Engineering
Ausee.com.au
Eccentric July 5 2018
Meridienne Sept 2019
TRANSWAVE Converters
Warco
ChesterUK
emcomachinetools
Allendale Electronics
Sarik
Subscription Offer

Latest "For Sale" Ads
Latest "Wanted" Ads
Get In Touch!

Do you want to contact the Model Engineer and Model Engineers' Workshop team?

You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.

Click THIS LINK for full contact details.

For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.

Digital Back Issues

Social Media online

'Like' us on Facebook
Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter
 Twitter Logo

Pin us on Pinterest