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Unknown castings

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Lou Powderly04/09/2018 12:59:03
7 forum posts
5 photos

I wonder if anybody can identify these castings. I was given then by a friend who's brother had died and he didn't know their source nor did he have any drawings

p9040248.jpg

p9040247.jpg.

Perhaps some of the more distinctive ones will trigger some memories.

Some bear numbers starting with an "M"

p9040250.jpg

Hopper04/09/2018 13:54:27
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4521 forum posts
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At risk of stating the obvious, but not knowing your background knowledge of model engines, it looks like some type of horizontal mill engine, judging from the cross heads and bearing pedestals etc.

Not sure what the gizmos in the last pic might be. Reversing gear? Governor?

Lou Powderly04/09/2018 16:56:00
7 forum posts
5 photos

Thank you for a speedy reply. Sorry, my introductory post seems to have got lost. I have been a model engineer on and off for a few decades and am aware that they are indeed for some horizontal engine but which or rather who's design is the mystery. Another strange thing is that the cradle shaped casting is too long to fit between the cylinder casting's flanges which is where I imagined it to be used.

Neil A06/09/2018 11:33:38
57 forum posts

I'm afraid I've not able to identify your castings from an internet search, but as has been stated, they seem to be from a horizontal engine.

Could you give the nominal dimensions of the cylinder, approximate bore and length, this might help in the identification. Also, perhaps, a list of the cast on part numbers might again give a clue to the supplier.

Of course, there is the possibility that they are not all from the same model, just to confuse things.

I hope that someone can identify them for you, they seem to be good clean castings, just waiting to be machined.

Neil

Kevin Murrell06/09/2018 13:19:08
32 forum posts
2 photos

They don't look like an Stuart beam castings.

I have seen the Stuart beam and major beam and they look nothing like this.

Sorry I can't help more.

JasonB06/09/2018 13:31:32
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It has the look of one of Willy Schneeberger's designs about it but I have looked at the usual sources for those and can't see it listed.

Looks like the cylinder has been machined, is it an imperial or metric bore which could point to whether it is a European kit or UK/USA

Is there any emblem cast into the valve chest cover? A styalised M would point to Luther Martrian but again don't think it is one of his engine designs, at least not one I have seen

Lou Powderly10/09/2018 17:29:55
7 forum posts
5 photos

The cylinder bore is 1" and the casting is 2 1/8" overall, the piston is 3/8" lang and if the disc is the crank then it would point to the stroke being 1 1/2". The numbers are as followed :-

 

new.jpg

PS   .....and if you haven't already guessed M17 is the valve

Edited By Lou Powderly on 10/09/2018 17:32:55

Bandersnatch10/09/2018 18:13:35
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Posted by Lou Powderly on 04/09/2018 16:56:00:

Another strange thing is that the cradle shaped casting is too long to fit between the cylinder casting's flanges which is where I imagined it to be used.

 

Could it actually be two separate parts connected by a casting sprue which has not yet been cut off? Each part seems to have its own mounting holes so I don't really see the point of the connecting bar.

Edited By Bandersnatch on 10/09/2018 18:15:03

JasonB10/09/2018 19:00:10
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Found smiley One on Station Road Steam's Archive. Also very similar to a couple they have listed as "Kennions Mill Engines" 

Edited By JasonB on 10/09/2018 19:26:33

FMES10/09/2018 19:06:04
602 forum posts
2 photos
Posted by Bandersnatch on 10/09/2018 18:13:35:
Posted by Lou Powderly on 04/09/2018 16:56:00:

Another strange thing is that the cradle shaped casting is too long to fit between the cylinder casting's flanges which is where I imagined it to be used.

 

Could it actually be two separate parts connected by a casting sprue which has not yet been cut off? Each part seems to have its own mounting holes so I don't really see the point of the connecting bar.

Edited By Bandersnatch on 10/09/2018 18:15:03

Something needs to hold the cylinder in place, and as you say, cast as one piece for cutting later.

 

Edited By FMES on 10/09/2018 19:07:02

Neil Wyatt10/09/2018 20:11:15
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Posted by JasonB on 10/09/2018 19:00:10:

Found smiley One on Station Road Steam's Archive. Also very similar to a couple they have listed as "Kennions Mill Engines"

Edited By JasonB on 10/09/2018 19:26:33

Well found, Jason.

Even down to M19 on the water pump casting.

"Probably dating from late nineteenth century" could be a tad optimistic? The numbering of castings seems to be a more 20th century habit and the cast baseplate looks more modern, Victorians tended to use a sheet of brass.

At least we now known the dogleg casting is for a water pump and the general arrangement, enough to make a working engine using all the castings.

The similarity to the Kennion's castings (sold the year before) seems close, but it isn't quite Tina

www.glrkennions.co.uk/model-engineering-steam-locomotive-tina-mill-engine.html.

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 10/09/2018 20:12:59

Nicholas Farr10/09/2018 21:17:33
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2258 forum posts
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Hi, that seems to be the one that JasonB found, however it seems to be one from Kennion Bros (Hertford) Ltd.

Here it is on page 28 of their catalogue that I got from them in 1992, but there was no mention of it in the price list.

kb page 26001.jpg

In the first G.L.R. Distributors Ltd (Inc. Kennion Bros) catalogue No.13 that I received, it is listed but there is no illustration. A few years later I got a catalogue from GLR Kennions Ltd, dated June 2013 and the only mill engine in that is Tina, which Neil mentions.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 10/09/2018 21:30:58

JasonB11/09/2018 07:07:00
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18084 forum posts
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There are a few differences between the red one and the Kennions mill engine eg feet cast into the Kennions cylinder, different pump, KB cast into the valve chest cover, etc.

It may well be by the original Kennions before the son took over and it became Kennion Bros or the design was bought by Bros and altered to make it easier to produce and make.

Tina seems to be the third incarnation of the same basic design.

Hopper11/09/2018 08:56:43
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4521 forum posts
94 photos

Well fou.nd Jason! And a handsome looking engine it is too. Rather interesting with the water pump and all. Certainly a worthwhile project. Looks like Kennions sell the drawings for Tina for a reasonable price so should be quite do-able.

MichaelR11/09/2018 09:43:33
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374 forum posts
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I also thought they looked like Kennions Tina, but found this listed in a 1959-1960 Bond's O Euston Road Catalogue the engine looks similar. Mike bonzone.jpg

Lou Powderly14/09/2018 21:46:52
7 forum posts
5 photos

WOW! Thank you chaps. Totally amazing. Sherlock Holmes has nothing on you. The completed engine looks very interesting and if I can source the drawings from somewhere I might add it to the project list, or on the other hand I might just build a more basic freehand version. Thank you once again for your hard work and interest.

Lou............................

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