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John Paton 113/01/2018 10:44:56
169 forum posts
6 photos

jag - early days.jpg

 

Just a few notes s a new member to the forum. Amongst my model engineering interests I have an interest in historic racing and kit cars. We have a 50 year old Triumph Herald reincarnated using a Gazelle kit body on a special chassis. This was professionally built for the original owner and we have owned her for nearly thirty years. Very much a 'trip to pub, summer evenings' car.

My first love car - wise has always been the Jaguar D Type and when I looked into the kit car recreations of these I embarked on a Realm / Ram kit which I bought part started.

It is proving a long job as I was unhappy with the initial work and stripped it right back, modified a couple of details on the chassis and then had the chassis shot blasted, zinc sprayed and powder coated.

Body has been put back on in the right position (before you couldn't get the Jag engine in!) and I have made a number of modifications along the way to improve the appearance and get closer to authentic (recognising that space frame chassis and GRP body will never fool those who know the car!

The process has involved much research and learning, initially to understand the history of the D Type and significant features, then the XK range of cars and potential donor parts, followed by vehicle mechanicals and electrical wiring to deterge what can be 'period' and what gives an acceptable modern equivalent.

The 'doing' stage equally involves much learning including the unravelling of often conflicting advice, research of IVA test requirements and developing a range of of practical skills.

Throughout my aim has been to do as much of the work as I can myself, but having any safety related welding done professionally (chassis alterations, prop shaft shortening,TIG welding on handbrake, stainless exhaust manifold and silencer)

Parts I have made myself so far include filler adapter to fit extra large fuel filler cap to fuel tank (assembly machined form aluminium scrap components and welded together - includes gauze filter), fabrication of more authentic stainless steel handbrake using MGB ratchet assembly and mounting in the correct position in the passenger well, new bonnet mountings and catches, anti roll bar links, brass radiator and fixings with electric fan, aluminium header tank, sheet aluminium trimming to engine bay with rubber splash seals, mock oil catch tank, cable tray, shortened XJ6 steering column (to retain collapsible section required for IVA) and associated mountings, aluminium trimming to cockpit floor and central tunnel, new dashboard - GRP moulded off hand moulded (draped) plastic pattern with 'leatherette' finish plastic sheet. Various adjustments to GRP bodyshell to correct fit, earlier assembly errors and to suit new arrangement of handbrake etc.

Wiring loom has been remade with larger cables for heavy power items, wiring for alternator, two speed radiator fan etc and with provision for lighting now required for IVA (repeater indicators , fog lights etc) and sockets to enable removal of body from the chassis.

I am now about to remove the body for hopefully the last time for final assembly of mechanicals and setting up suspension geometry and fitting of speedometer sensor. This will then leave final fitting of lighting and instruments. I have bought a digital driver for mechanical speedo which overcomes ratio issues to achieve the speedometer accuracy demanded by IVA.

The car might be completed this year, but then again i have said that before ....several times!!

John

 

 

jag back from janspeed.jpg

 

 

 

 

jag radiator.jpg

 

 

Edited By John Paton 1 on 13/01/2018 10:46:38

Edited By John Paton 1 on 13/01/2018 10:48:04

Edited By John Paton 1 on 13/01/2018 10:49:39

Hopper13/01/2018 12:27:22
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3651 forum posts
72 photos

I'm more of a two-wheeler guy, but that thing looks awesome! Truly a thing of beauty. Welcome to the forum.

peak413/01/2018 12:27:24
avatar
790 forum posts
67 photos

Looking good, hello and welcome.

Mine's in the Avatar; Marlin Berlinetta.

The closest I'll ever get to a D type, was my favourite Scalextrix as a kid; bright yellow as I recall

All the best

Bill

Mike13/01/2018 13:01:00
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713 forum posts
6 photos

Sorry to be a boring nerd, but I seem to remember the yellow D-Type belonged to Ecurie Nationale Belge. It came 4th in 1957, driven by Paul Frere and Freddy Rouselle. That was the great year for the Ecurie Ecosse D-types. A great era for British motor racing. Jaguars took five places out of the top six. I was 16 then and we didn't have a TV, but I seem to remember the Light Programme made periodic visits.

Chris Evans 613/01/2018 14:24:16
1442 forum posts

Like Hopper I am a two wheel man but have also dabbled with cars over the years. I have scratch built a few trials cars, rebuilt a "Dellow" trials car along the way and built a Marcos kit car. The D type is looking good, do not worry about a time scale, just get it right. When I retired the cars and Land Rover went ( can't keep all the toys on a pension) and the bikes stayed.

Russell Eberhardt13/01/2018 14:53:55
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2465 forum posts
83 photos

It's nice to play with cars that aren't full of computers. I had to sell my vintage cars to supplement the pension when I took early retirement but do miss them.

Russell

John Paton 113/01/2018 15:14:31
169 forum posts
6 photos
Posted by Mike on 13/01/2018 13:01:00:

Sorry to be a boring nerd, but I seem to remember the yellow D-Type belonged to Ecurie Nationale Belge. It came 4th in 1957, driven by Paul Frere and Freddy Rouselle. That was the great year for the Ecurie Ecosse D-types. A great era for British motor racing. Jaguars took five places out of the top six. I was 16 then and we didn't have a TV, but I seem to remember the Light Programme made periodic visits.

Oh yes, the smell of hot tufnol and lightly roasted dust on the old valve radio!!! Fortunately I still have stock of some old Tufnol (my late grandfather had a radio shop in the 50's and I have inherited much of his remaining 'bits and bobs' through my late uncle - I think that is where I caught the interest in engineering from). I intend to incorporate some of the Tufnol in appropriate (and visible) locations on the Jag. HT lead spacer bracket on the cam cover was Tufnol in period.

I believe you are correct too re Belge colour.

colin brannigan13/01/2018 16:44:00
55 forum posts
7 photos

I started to build a kit car 15 years ago but I moved to a house that didn't have a garage so I gave it all away and now I have a few sheds in the back garden where potter and play with my collection of motorcycles

Wonderful machines motorcycles.

Mike13/01/2018 16:53:41
avatar
713 forum posts
6 photos

Thanks, John. My grandfather used to build radios, and I listened to Le Mans on one he made for my mum and dad. And yes, I do remember the smell of hot tufnol and roasted dust. Used to listen to Take it from Here, Round the Horn, Handcock's Half Hour and, of course, the never-to-be-forgotten Goon Show. Having saved my money for weeks, I went to Le Mans in 1960, hoping to see some Jaguar action, but it turned out to be a Ferrari procession. The only memorable Jaguar that year was an E-type prototype entered by the American, Briggs Cunningham. It went out with a mechanical fault during the night. Do please keep in touch with all of us with your progress in building your D-Type. I haven't seen a D-type for years, but our local motor museum up here in Moray has the Ecurie Ecosse Lister-Jaguar in absolutely immaculate condition- but that's another story.

john fletcher 113/01/2018 18:02:27
516 forum posts

Never mind the cars, what about In Town To- night on every Saturday evening, Dick Barton Special Agent, old Mother Riley and Arthur Askey all on the Home Service. John

John Paton 113/01/2018 18:24:41
169 forum posts
6 photos

Will do Mike, I have some better photos somewhere but couldn't locate them on the spur of the moment.

I envy you to have followed the D Types at their birth. For me it is just one of the prettiest racing cars despite its weight.

My holy grail is Goodwood Revival - I go most years and a few years back there were 25 or 26 D Types in the paddock. I took a lot of photos that year. It must have been nearly every surviving D Type!

I really enjoy making even small parts for the car, others might not appreciate the detailed care that I put in to try and get design and materials right for period, if not exact. The beauty of the D Type is that even when new they were pretty much bespoke and used what parts Jaguar had available at the time. That and subsequent racing history means that no two cars are the same and there are quite noticeable differences on some. Mine will be a miss mash of early and late details (twin SU carbs as used on the early 3.4L engines but on a 3.8L unit which would have had Webber's by the time that size engine was fitted.)

If you look carefully at the radiator photo I posted, the tie bar to the top fixing is from the aircraft industry (not wrong on cars of that period using 'army surplus' resources and a nod towards the aircraft design used for the engine subframe on the original as developed for hanging aircraft engines to their fuselages). I fabricated the other tie bar to match as I only had the one in my 'odds box'. The side plate on the radiator it ties to is mild steel, pre tinned all over and soft soldiered on to the radiator cheek. The radiator itself is a mixture of brass and tinned steel profiles, the steel being used for the more structural bits.

The brackets for the drop links on the anti roll bar don't show on the photo but once fabricated I had them zinc plated, as also new m.s. tubular struts supporting the rear of the body shell from the differential cage. Those will be clear epoxy coated rather than black painted to avoid corrosion but help retain a bit of an illusion of being made of alloy.

For me the aim is to gain an impression of authenticity despite being a modern home build, hence my choice to use a genuine analogue speedometer clock albeit driven secretly from a digital source. I have yet to source an affordable screen printer to make a new speedo dial as it will be altered to have the 0 mph at '1.30' and the 180 mph at '10.30' on the clock face and have the stop pin repositioned. The analogue odometer and trip dials will retain the nice old red and orange paint from the MK2 Jaguar speedo.

Similarly I have blow out on a modern alternator fitted in a mock dynamo body to help retain some credibility under the bonnet, diagonal cable tray will also help by following the diagonal line of the engine/front suspension subframe on the original. This will be easier to see when i dig out the photo of that area.

Incidentally i will be up your way later this year - we shall be spending a few days in Berridale (on coast N of Dornoch)

John Paton 113/01/2018 18:30:11
169 forum posts
6 photos
Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 13/01/2018 14:53:55:

It's nice to play with cars that aren't full of computers. I had to sell my vintage cars to supplement the pension when I took early retirement but do miss them.

Russell

Absolutely!!! On our old kit car I was able to machine and bush the carburettor and replace worn spindles. Just try doing that with an injection engine.
I have had more failures on my current 'fly by wire' car than on all my old cars combined. When there is talk of driverless cars I have visions of massive gridlock with cars that have stopped in random places due to sensor faults and defects in failsafe systems saying something is wrong when it isn't. LoL

colin brannigan13/01/2018 20:14:52
55 forum posts
7 photos

It's nice to play with cars that aren't full of computers. I had to sell my vintage cars to supplement the pension when I took early retirement but do miss them.

Russell

My 90 year old Triumph motorcycle has sensors........my ears, eyes, nose and hands, they tell me when it's running okay.

Robbo13/01/2018 22:06:24
1504 forum posts
142 photos
Posted by Mike on 13/01/2018 16:53:41:

I haven't seen a D-type for years, but our local motor museum up here in Moray has the Ecurie Ecosse Lister-Jaguar in absolutely immaculate condition- but that's another story.

Like this one? Remember Archie Scott-Brown?

lister-jaguar003.jpg

Keith Rogers 213/01/2018 23:48:34
66 forum posts
1 photos

Deleted as rubbish. Sorry.

Edited By Keith Rogers 2 on 13/01/2018 23:53:00

Mike14/01/2018 15:14:27
avatar
713 forum posts
6 photos

I certainly remember Archie Scott-Brown driving the works Lister-Jaguar. I also remember the American, Masden Gregory, driving for them. He had an aggressive tail-out cornering style the crowd loved. Once met him in the Silverstone paddock, and he gave the appearance of a mild-mannered, bespectacled theological student rather than a gutsy racing driver. I've put some pics of the Ecurie Ecosse Lister-Jaguar in my photos. A different version to the one Scott-Brown is driving in Robbo's post.

Howard Lewis15/01/2018 14:08:25
2158 forum posts
2 photos

Sadly, it is already happening. Recently heard of a mobile electronic wonder that refused to reverse into the drive because the sensors noticed a plastic bag!

Totally logical but lacking in initiative, again.

Good work restoring the D type. Was there not a road going version, with a luggage rack on the top rear, marketeted for a short time as the XK150?

My only claim is to have helped build a Locost. It was interesting measuring the Main and Big End parent bores to arrive at the torques to provide a truly round bore. (Not necessarily the "book" value, but not far off)

The devil is in the detail. It was claimed that Freddy Dixon could increase the speed of a car by 5 mph, just by stripping and rebuilding the back axle. He was renowned for his use of tuned Induction and Exhaust tracts

Howard.

daveb15/01/2018 15:17:33
606 forum posts
10 photos

Friend had an XK150 looked like a later version of the XK120, nothing like the D Type.

I had an E Type, I think the best looking car ever. Not the best handling though.

John Paton 115/01/2018 15:35:53
169 forum posts
6 photos

Road going version is the XKSS - also mega bucks for the real thing as the factory burned down shortly after production commenced. There are quite a few well built kit car 'recreations' some of which have been very nicely built. A good friend of mine built one and even went to the bother of spraying silver before putting on the cream coach enamel, then buffing down through the paint at 'wear points' so that it looked like aluminium showing through!

He also ground off all the moulded rivets and remade them as the rivets on the D Type (from which the XKSS kit mould was derived) were not correct for the XKSS! A true labour of love but worth the effort as he realised a high price for the car when he eventually decided to sell it. He is now restoring an EType bought with the proceeds.

I think the D Type kits are now going to become rare as old Jag bits are becoming very expensive and hard to source.

ron vale 128/07/2019 22:52:43
21 forum posts
3 photos

The identity of this car has most, if not all, of the ca r entusiasts stumped

Photograhed in the early 60's in Oxford St

It has Gull wing doors ,front hinge body, and is 99% a commercial kit car ( too good for the average home build back then)

However the genera concenscus is it ISNT a sunbeam harrington derivitve

So any old uns's out there have a clue

the thread, if you fancy a long read is

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1555306mystery car.jpg

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