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Unusal Stuart Turner No. ? engine

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ian j26/11/2017 10:58:23
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pb261860 (large).jpgpb261862 (large).jpgpb261867 (large).jpggood Morning.

Can any body help to identify this Stuart Turner engine.?

It's 13 1/2" high, 2" bore & stroke with a 7 1/2" fly wheel..

The steam inlet and exhaust are on the same side of the steam chest/cylinder..

The cylinder bore/stroke would suggest it's a number 1 but as you can see it has two separate vertical standards with the piston rod/ crank small end guide running between them.More photo's in my Stuart Turner album.pb261853 (large).jpg

As you can guess it's a restoration project!

Thank you.

Ian

mechman4826/11/2017 16:03:46
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2588 forum posts
392 photos

Hi Ian ,
​Looking through the Stuarts catalogue I would suggest it is a No1...with a modification to the frame work & reversing gear added...




stuart no 1.jpg

George










michael potts26/11/2017 16:20:50
36 forum posts

Ian.

I do not have my early Stuart catalogues ; my son seems to have them for some reason. However what you have is probably an early No 1 engine, and by early I mean pre WW2. I seem to remember that these machines had two cast standards rather than one standard and a support column. When I lay hands on my catalogues I will have a look.

Mike Potts.

JasonB26/11/2017 16:30:53
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As Michael says I have seen other early No1 engines with the two part standards like yours, think they may well be pre WW1

Maurice26/11/2017 16:49:58
455 forum posts
50 photos

I agree; it is an early No.1 It would be interesting to find out how early. I have an old No.1 that I restored, with one standard and a steel column, the same as present day. All the threads are Whitworth. I called Stuart Turner, and they said that they changed to B.A. threads in 1918; so I think it reasonable to assume that mine predates this date, and that Ian j's engine even older than that. It might be worth contacting Stuarts to see if they can tell you when the design was changed. They were most helpful when I called.

michael potts26/11/2017 17:44:28
36 forum posts

If everyone can wait until I get hold of my Stuart catalogues we will find out, because I have them back to the year dot. Stuarts used Whitworth threads until at least WW2, I thought that they changed to BA after 1946 because that was when they started to sell off their stocks of Whitworth studs, nuts and bolts. The catalogues may be back tomorrow evening, otherwise Tuesday morning.

Mike Potts

ian j26/11/2017 18:29:17
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280 forum posts
249 photos

Thanks everyone for taking the time to help identify this engine.

Just to correct the fly wheel dimension. it's 71/4" not 7 1/2" as I originally stated..

Very interesting fact about changing from Whitworth to BA threads just checked mine and indeed they are Whitworth.

Mike. Yes it would be appreciated if you could look it up in your catalogues..

This raises the question on whether it's best to restore it i,e remake worn parts, new studs and nuts, paint job etc or just give it a good clean, bearing in mind this is a workshop funding exercise!

Any way once again thank you

Ian

Steamer191526/11/2017 19:02:45
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Hello Ian,

I think it's a number 5 (Not 5A). I have one that was built in the 1920's and entered into an exhibition in Liverpool. It is indeed 2"x2" and similar to the number 1 except for the double standard. When I have a spare minute, I'll post some pics along with a page from a 1924 Stuart catalogue that lists the casting set.

Best regards,

Steve.

ian j26/11/2017 19:08:52
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280 forum posts
249 photos

Thanks for that Steve.

The plot thickens !!

Ian

michael potts27/11/2017 12:41:27
36 forum posts

And, to the catalogues.

The # 5 engine was listed in our 1906 reprint, was listed in 1928, but not listed in 1930.

BA threads appeared for the first time in the 1948 catalogue.

Mike Potts.

HughE27/11/2017 14:27:47
122 forum posts

From my 1961 cat it looks like a No 1 with various mods. Left hand support is a bar not as shown in your photo.

Certainly the reversing gear looks like the one shown on the No 5

No 1 has a 2" bore and Stroke and is 13" high.

No 5 has a 2 1/4" bore and a 2" stroke and is 15" high.

 

Hugh

Edited By HughE on 27/11/2017 14:28:09

Edited By HughE on 27/11/2017 14:33:43

Rik Shaw27/11/2017 16:05:39
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1313 forum posts
352 photos

I've got one. It's a 5a.

Rik

michael potts27/11/2017 16:25:52
36 forum posts

The # 5 engine did not exist in 1961. By then the # 5a was supplied as it had been for over 35 years.

How are you intending to restore it, because Stuart standards changed a lot after WW2, notably in pipe thread standards. Before they had a list of thread standards, 13 in all, in the catalogues. Six were brass gas sizes, three were iron pipe sizes, the smallest three sizes were standard Whitworth threads. The fourth size, designated # 3 was a real Stuart special, 3/16" X 36 TPI. It was used for small fittings, and has caused us no little trouble over the years.

Station Road Steam used to have a list of Stuart engines, but that seems to have vanished recently. It was useful, because over the years there have been a lot of different engines, many now completely forgotten. They are usually seen as auction lots, that is if the photographs are good enough to be useful.

Mike Potts.

JasonB27/11/2017 16:30:18
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Posted by Rik Shaw on 27/11/2017 16:05:39:

I've got one. It's a 5a.

Rik

5A has a tubular trunk guide and the "A" frame standard is a single casting. The one in the photo has flat guides and the standard is two separate castings.

5A is also 2 1/4" bore but the 5 is 2" bore and 2" stroke so possibly a No5

ian j27/11/2017 17:39:16
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280 forum posts
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thanks everybody for getting involved in this mystery engine and taking the time to look in your catalogue collections.

It sounds as if it's a No.5 dated between 1906 to 1929.,from Mike's research. and Steve's comments.

Just to throw a spanner in the works, I've started to dismantle it and the top cylinder cover has a "4" cast on the inside, were some parts identified with a number corresponding to a part on a drawing.? Another strange feature is the piston has a single piston ring groove with two piston rings in it ( one of which is broken), is/was this a common practice.?

On the subject of replacement piston rings when the outside diameter of the ring is quoted ( eg 2" is this the size of the ring or the size of the bore it's for ( the ring is bigger than 2"?

 

Just had a reply from Stuart Turner models:-

"Stuart Turner back in the day (pre first world war) made a series of engines with a double sided standard and sliding cross heads, I think this may be one of them."

 

That's it for now !

 

Ian

 

Edited By ian j on 27/11/2017 17:58:12

JasonB27/11/2017 17:55:21
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Yes 2 rings in one groove is fairly common.

Rings are sized by the bore they are intended to run in.

Rik Shaw27/11/2017 18:30:15
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1313 forum posts
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"5A has a tubular trunk guide"

Correct, next time I’ll have to look at the photos more closely.

Rik

ian j13/01/2018 15:10:14
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280 forum posts
249 photos

p1101885 (medium).jpgThought I would just update you with a couple of photo's of the engine.I made several new parts:-

New crank shaft, piston rod, valve rod, slide valve, exhaust and flange and piston rings.

Painted satin mid Brunswick green.

It runs on compressed air quite well but it's got a knock which I'm pretty sure is coming from wear between the cross head and the bottom of the vertical columns.

 

Here is a link to a short video of it running on air;-

**LINK**

 

p1101884 (medium).jpg

Edited By ian j on 13/01/2018 15:11:51

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