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Early myford super Seven parts identify plz

spare parts

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Piero Franchi24/11/2017 14:31:58
124 forum posts
60 photos

Hi Guys

Looking for some help with sorting out what I was given (spare/accessory parts) with My early super 7

not long ago finished a full restoration on this lathe,

I was given a load of other stuff with my myford, that I had aside up un till now, kept separate from my lathe, only to not confuse me as I was doing the rebuild,

I have lots of parts that came with the lathe but this is the stuff I cant work out what it does or where it goes,

so over to you for your help please.

photos are in my blog.

Top left gear is a 30T didn't write down the outer dia, its 1/2 thick

the other three items appear to be a set, only the shaft looks a little on the short side

the two gears are 30t and a 20t

shaft is 6/8 long (portion gears could run on)

Edited By Piero Franchi on 24/11/2017 14:32:49

ega25/11/2017 11:23:57
2500 forum posts
200 photos

Piero Franchi:

Congratulations on your "full restoration" - I assume this is not one of those situations where you have left over parts and don't know where they should go!

I looked at your "blog" [=album]. The individual gears look like Myford gears but it would help to know the diametral pitch and pressure angle. That said, if your gear train and/or gear box are working properly you probably needn't worry about the identity of the mystery parts.

This post will remind more knowledgeable Super 7 owners of your question and I hope your curiosity is satisfied in due course.

Piero Franchi25/11/2017 15:45:24
124 forum posts
60 photos

No, As I said in my post, I was very care full to keep the lathe parts well away from the accessories that came with the lathe.

The lathe went back together with out a lost/missing or extra parts without a home.

The bits in the photos where extra items i am now trying to identify

I have found in the myford website a part number for one of the gears, HT45 Tumbler sleeve gear assembly 10351

the tumbler gear that was fitted to my super 7 when I picked it up was a one piece item, this is a two piece item.

I am guessing this is so you can have a different ratio with out changing the whole thing

bricky25/11/2017 16:11:56
572 forum posts
68 photos

They look like they fit on the change wheel banjo as that is a spacing washer so that two gears don't bind when engaged.

Frank

Piero Franchi25/11/2017 16:27:27
124 forum posts
60 photos

I am new to myfords, Might you know of the myford part number plz bricky

bricky25/11/2017 18:15:52
572 forum posts
68 photos

Sorry I can't help you there but try the square section on the banjo and that might give you a clue that it is from there.

Frank

peak425/11/2017 21:43:57
avatar
1678 forum posts
179 photos

The first photo in your set shows the first driver set of the leadscrew chain. The following comments assume a lathe doesn't have a gearbox fitted.

Following typing the rest of this diatribe I've re-visited your photos and realised that you must have a gearbox fitted as you've got a copy of its manual.

The gear which is fixed to the bronze bush engages with the tumbler gears for forward/reverse drive of the leadscrew.

Onto this you fit the first drive gear to start the screwcutting/fine feed change gears in motion (Most commonly a 20 tooth gear for imperial, or 21 tooth for metric threads, on a non-gearbox lathe).

You should have one on your lathe now assuming the leadscrew/gearbox turns when you operate the lathe.

N.B. If you have a fixed ratio dual sized gear in place at the moment, it's most likely the one designed for an even finer feed of the leadscrew, which will give you all the wrong pitches if you try screwcutting. (this is available as an optional extra)

The bolt with a flat section below the head, is to set up another pair of gears in the drive chain, not for the gear with the attached keyed stub. The squared off bit saves it rotation on the banjo. There should also be a bronze "Top Hat" bush which runs on this special bolt, which I can see in your photo, and in turn, a tube with an external key which runs on the top hat.

This allows a pair of gears to be keyed together, separated by that little washer with a slot in it. The whole assembly then sits on the banjo to the left of the headstock, and allows an intermediate pair of gears in the drive chain.

I hope this reads OK as it's not easy to describe without pictures.

 

Further edit of my post; I's say these are probably surplus to your immediate requirements, subject to the warning I gave above regarding the gear just below the Tufnol tumber gears.

Assuming you will at some point need to cut metric threads, it is possible on an imperial gearbox lathe by changing the initial drive gear in the chain. i.e. the one that sits on that keyed boss in your first photo.

 

Bill

Edited By peak4 on 25/11/2017 21:49:31

Edited By peak4 on 25/11/2017 22:13:57

peak425/11/2017 22:18:26
avatar
1678 forum posts
179 photos

N.B. I wasn't quick enough editing my previous post.

Following on from where I typed

Onto this you fit the first drive gear to start the screwcutting/fine feed change gears in motion (Most commonly a 20 tooth gear for imperial, or 21 tooth for metric threads, on a non-gearbox lathe).

I should have added, on your gearbox equipped lathe the drive gear should probably be a 24/30 tooth combination.
There might also be a chart inside the door giving alternatives to the 24 tooth gear for cutting metric threads.

Just got back in the edit time to add the link to Tony's Lathe resource for Myfords.

Bill

 

Edited By peak4 on 25/11/2017 22:22:33

Piero Franchi26/11/2017 08:18:53
124 forum posts
60 photos

Many kind thanks Peak4

you have explained that very well, and it has given me some direction and possible clues to my lathes history.

I do not know if this lathe came fitted new from the factory with its gearbox, it could have been an added extra that might explain the first gear in my photo, the one that you have said is the first driver set of the leadscrew chain.

My super7 is a non carriage power feed,

its possible the previous owner fitted the super fine fixed tumbler gear in place of the two part 30t to 20t (as per my photo, in order to give him a fine feed so he could power the carriage with the gearbox and use it for cutting ????

just a guess mind.

I know know a little more about my lathe, and will be on the look out for that brass top hat you spoke off, if only so it does not get chucked out.

Is it ok to leave the super fine ratio tumbler gear in place and use the gearbox to power the carriage (on the final cut) to get a more even cut ?????

peak426/11/2017 11:30:29
avatar
1678 forum posts
179 photos

Piero, I may have misled you regarding tooth numbers on the initial drive gear; the one that is just below the tumblers. Unfortunately I can't edit my earlier posts

I've just been looking at your other albums, and seen your photos relating to a very nice re-build.

I'm no Myford expert by any means, though I've owned a tatty Super 7 for about 30 years. Mine, though old is newer than yours, and is fitted with changewheels, rather than a gearbox.

I also have a Warco copy of a Super 7 with gearbox, which seems to be a copy of a later variant of the super 7, with power x feed.

Going by the photos on Tony's web site, I think your lathe is one of the early ones, looking at the cap above the spindle, perhaps fitted with the early screw cutting gearbox, so the drive ratios may be different to mine, but still achieve the same final gearing at the output side. Check though the various pages he hosts and check for yourself.

I don't want to deep link to photos on his web site, but of you follow the link to an ML7 Photo Essay and scroll down to where the left hand gear cover is open, you can count the teeth on the gear on the tumbler stud. That photo shows 20 teeth to drive the gearbox on that ML7. My Warco copy has a 24 tooth drive gear on there, similar to some of the other genuine Myford photos on the same site.

If you have a look on Myford's web site, and type "Fine Feed" into the search box, you will see the one piece tumbler drive gear; there's a variety of pitches at the large end, to suit the application, but all are 12 tooth at the small end; these would normally be used to provide a finer feed on a changewheel lathe like my genuine Super 7. I don't believe that any of the gearboxes used a 12 tooth drive gear on the tumbler stud.

Just an offbeat thought, if you were to select 8 TPI on the gearbox (the same as the leadscrew) one complete turn of the chuck should result in one complete turn of the leadscrew if the drive gear is the correct one.

Bill

Piero Franchi26/11/2017 18:10:41
124 forum posts
60 photos

Here,s a question for everyone

If like me you have a screw cutting gearbox, are the full set of metric gears off any use to you????

HughE27/11/2017 13:56:38
122 forum posts

Hi Piero,

You have the same model S7 as me. It looks like the parts are from the metric conversion banjo assembly.

I have a Operation, Installation, maintenance and pictorial parts list manual. If you are interested I could send you a scanned copy. PM me if interested.

Hugh

DMR27/11/2017 16:13:03
124 forum posts
14 photos

Hi Piero,

You have identified the tumbler stud sleeve gear 10351. This replaces the 12 tooth ganged tumbler stud that is fitted on your machine as you seem to have worked out. On a more modern machine your 12T would be a 24T and the 10351 part would be a standard part. Your gearbox needs the 12T you have to operate correctly. Its a left over from the ML7 days. The washer in your picture will be 50 thou thick and along with the shaft piece are part of the metric conversion kit, which must have existed with your lathe at one time along with a set of gears which DO NOT form part of the current metric conversion set as the external gearing on your early gearbox is different.

You have previously said that you want to work in imperial, not metric. You can cut short metric and BA thread approximations with what you have by fitting the 10351 plus 20T, 21T, 33T or 34T (mostly the 33 & 34) onto the 10351 part. If you want to cut more accurate metric threads, then you need the metric conversion set, but you would have to supplement the supplied cogs in that set to cut all metric threads on your early gearbox.

Various mails on here talk about rough Myford metric screwcutting using the gearbox. I have deleted our previous correspondence and repeat my e-mail in a PM if all is not clear now.

Dennis

Edited By DMR on 27/11/2017 16:23:23

Edited By DMR on 27/11/2017 16:24:19

DMR27/11/2017 16:21:03
124 forum posts
14 photos

repeat post

Edited By DMR on 27/11/2017 16:21:40

Simon Williams 327/11/2017 17:33:24
652 forum posts
82 photos
Posted by DMR on 27/11/2017 16:13:03:

Hi Piero,

You have identified the tumbler stud sleeve gear 10351. This replaces the 12 tooth ganged tumbler stud that is fitted on your machine as you seem to have worked out. On a more modern machine your 12T would be a 24T and the 10351 part would be a standard part. Your gearbox needs the 12T you have to operate correctly. Its a left over from the ML7 days. The washer in your picture will be 50 thou thick and along with the shaft piece are part of the metric conversion kit, which must have existed with your lathe at one time along with a set of gears which DO NOT form part of the current metric conversion set as the external gearing on your early gearbox is different.

You have previously said that you want to work in imperial, not metric. You can cut short metric and BA thread approximations with what you have by fitting the 10351 plus 20T, 21T, 33T or 34T (mostly the 33 & 34) onto the 10351 part. If you want to cut more accurate metric threads, then you need the metric conversion set, but you would have to supplement the supplied cogs in that set to cut all metric threads on your early gearbox.

Various mails on here talk about rough Myford metric screwcutting using the gearbox. I have deleted our previous correspondence and repeat my e-mail in a PM if all is not clear now.

Dennis

Edited By DMR on 27/11/2017 16:23:23

Edited By DMR on 27/11/2017 16:24:19

Couple of things spring to mind:

If I've understood that the gearbox train input gear is 12 T mot 24, then this is the old gearbox and the 20, 24, 33, 34 gears are a red herring. There is much buried in the archive to explain further, for example **LINK**

Also the idea that the 33 or 34 t gears give a "rough" approximation to a true metric conversion is wrong. They give a very close, useful method of getting to the "near enough" answer.

If the OP wants to adapt his lathe for metric threads and it is the old half speed g'box he needs the 17T or 16-1/2 T gears of the thread above.

Rgds Simon

DMR27/11/2017 21:26:00
124 forum posts
14 photos

Oops,

Quite right Simon, Old age strikes again. I only formulated my own "metric roughs' tables for my newer machine. I must get round to doing the same table for my older one. Divide by 2 with quirks. I prefer my threads to be right, so I've never actually used the option.

Dennis

Piero Franchi28/11/2017 08:46:28
124 forum posts
60 photos

All It was, was as I had now come to the end of my rebuild, I was trying to identify other parts that were given to me as spares along with the lathe. As per my photos in my blog.

 

Just to clarify, Yes this is the early Super7.

No I don't especially want to cut metric threads, I just want to know what I have in turms of accessory

I was given a set of metric gears with my lathe, all boxed and most of them still have the wax coating on them,

I assume that they are for the Early super 7

Edited By Piero Franchi on 28/11/2017 08:47:12

Edited By Piero Franchi on 28/11/2017 08:47:35

Simon Williams 328/11/2017 09:23:08
652 forum posts
82 photos

Hi Piero, yes I certainly believe this is a Mk 1 Super 7, it has the oil drip bath for the front bearing the same as mine.

Mine is dated 1953 if I remember right.

Inside the gear gover ( which isn't original, but is much the same date and is the early gear box) is the following label:

dsc_0530-1.jpg

This seems to be different from the "Metric conversion kit" of the later models with the gearbox driven by a 24T gear on the mandrel. For the sake of completeness here is a picture of the corresponding label for the later gearbox:

dsc_0531-1.jpg

HTH

Simon

Piero Franchi28/11/2017 10:20:54
124 forum posts
60 photos

Hi Simon (and others)

Thanks for the photos,

I too have this on the inside of my door.

Having never changed any thing from the standard form my myford arrived to me, I am a little confused as to what exactly I change in order to get my desired metric ratio,s

The metric box set of gears I have, is about 15 odd pieces, mostly gears. some of them rather large.

where do they go ????

steamdave28/11/2017 11:48:34
510 forum posts
44 photos
Posted by ega on 25/11/2017 11:23:57:

Piero Franchi:

Congratulations on your "full restoration" - I assume this is not one of those situations where you have left over parts and don't know where they should go!

As an aside... The engineers on board would sometimes play tricks on their mates when an engine overhaul was being undertaken. The usual thing was to hide a couple of bolts before rebuild, but an evil one would throw in an extra bolt, causing a bit of head scratching for a while.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

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