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Motor rotation

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sean logie27/07/2017 19:32:09
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590 forum posts
90 photos
Hi, just got the motor for centec 2 , the motor is turning the wrong way for the mill . I've tried changing over the capacitor wires but motor still turns the wrong way . Motor is a 1hp advantage lite 11, single phase . Heres how its wired just now https://flic.kr/p/WyAwZ3.
Is there anything else I can try .

Edited By sean logie on 27/07/2017 19:35:27

John Haine27/07/2017 19:35:43
3108 forum posts
162 photos

You need to swap over the ends of the motor winding to which the capacitor is connected. Swapping the capacitor wires will do nothing.

not done it yet27/07/2017 23:14:53
4663 forum posts
16 photos

IF you might get a vertical head sometime, you will need a change-over switch as the motor needs to turn the other way for both the Mkll and lll heads (have to think about the Mkl).

Ady128/07/2017 00:52:10
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3700 forum posts
517 photos

wiring1.jpg

sean logie28/07/2017 06:56:40
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590 forum posts
90 photos

Thanks guys ,I changed the blue wire of the capacitor to the opposite side of the red wire and hey presto motor now turns in the direction I need.

Sean

Edited By sean logie on 28/07/2017 07:07:07

sean logie28/07/2017 18:45:22
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590 forum posts
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The motor is mounted onto the mill now ,so I gave it a wee test run cutting some delrin to start with for about 10-15 min and I noticed the motor started to get warm then hot untill I could barely put my hand on it . Could it be possible seeing as I changed the direction the motor turns this is the cause of the motor getting very hot or is it just goosed .

Sean

Keith Long28/07/2017 19:05:07
833 forum posts
11 photos

Sean - I assume that your motor was a capacitor start machine. I can't tell from your photo what the various wires connect to in your motor, but it's possible that you have got it connected so that the start winding is permanently energised and not being disconnected by the centrifugal switch (or other starting cut out). I suggest you trace ALL the wires out to see where they are going/coming from. Having the start winding permanently connected will result in overheating and burning the winding out.

What you need to do from your original set up is to reverse the polarity of the start winding relative to what it was when you first got it.

I suggest you get hold of the Workshop Practice Series Books no.s 16 and 24 by Jim Cox - Electric Motors and Electric Motors in the Workshop, they will explain just about everything you will need to know.

John Haine28/07/2017 19:36:10
3108 forum posts
162 photos
Posted by sean logie on 28/07/2017 06:56:40:

Thanks guys ,I changed the blue wire of the capacitor to the opposite side of the red wire and hey presto motor now turns in the direction I need.

Sean

Edited By sean logie on 28/07/2017 07:07:07

The opposite side of which red wire? There are 4 on your photo! As Keith says, you need to trace all the wires.

When you switch on the motor and it runs, and then you switch it off, do you hear a click as it runs down? If so that is the starter centrifugal switch. If you don't hear it, then the motor may be a "capacitor start and run". Whichever type, if you swap over the connections of the winding to which one end of the capacitor is connected (so the capacitor is in series with the winding) the motor will reverse correctly.

Ian P28/07/2017 20:01:01
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2390 forum posts
101 photos

You say its a single phase motor but since the windings are labelled U, V and W it looks suspiciously like most three phase motors do.

As is happens my Austrian mill was manufactured and supplied as standard with a three phase motor bodged to run on single phase with a capacitor. The mill was known to be hard to start when in the high geared spindle speed because the motor (wired in that way) did not produce its full power. I fitted a VFD and would have to have my arm twisted to go back to single phase.

Ian P

sean logie28/07/2017 20:35:19
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590 forum posts
90 photos
Posted by John Haine on 28/07/2017 19:36:10:
Posted by sean logie on 28/07/2017 06:56:40:

Thanks guys ,I changed the blue wire of the capacitor to the opposite side of the red wire and hey presto motor now turns in the direction I need.

Sean

Edited By sean logie on 28/07/2017 07:07:07

The opposite side of which red wire? There are 4 on your photo! As Keith says, you need to trace all the wires.

When you switch on the motor and it runs, and then you switch it off, do you hear a click as it runs down? If so that is the starter centrifugal switch. If you don't hear it, then the motor may be a "capacitor start and run". Whichever type, if you swap over the connections of the winding to which one end of the capacitor is connected (so the capacitor is in series with the winding) the motor will reverse correctly.

The red and blue at the top of the picture were the the one's I swap first and then I changed the blue wire to the opposite end (the red and blue wires being the capacitor) The power feed cables at the bottom sticking through the casing were wired from a drawing the guy I bought the motor from sent with the motor . Wiring is not my my best subject ,,being colour blind doesn't help either .

 

Sean 

Edited By sean logie on 28/07/2017 20:37:02

Ian P28/07/2017 20:59:44
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2390 forum posts
101 photos

Sean

As you say colour blindness is a hindrance with electrical wiring but that combined with your admitted lack of wiring expertise is a recipe for a (minor) disaster.

I am fairly convinced you have a three phase motor and it is possible to run it of a single phase supply. A quick Google search shows many hits of wiring diagrams etc, most also mention that the motor will only produce about two thirds the power of its rating plate specification.

If you are unsure about which wire goes where, it would be best to consult the original supplier or competent electrician as it may save you damaging the motor, (it does not take too long to compromise the insulation)

Ian P

Brian Sweeting28/07/2017 22:19:19
421 forum posts
1 photos

Wiring schemes here...

 

**LINK**

duncan webster28/07/2017 23:14:28
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2602 forum posts
34 photos

As there are 6 wires disappearing into the motor, I'm with Ian, you have a 3 phase motor. Can you post a photo of the motor plate?

sean logie28/07/2017 23:33:30
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590 forum posts
90 photos
I've added a photo of the nameplate and it is a 3 phase .

Sean
JasonB29/07/2017 07:49:21
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sean logie29/07/2017 08:09:49
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590 forum posts
90 photos
Thanks Jason , need to figure out inserting photos to a thread 😉

Sean
Martin Connelly29/07/2017 08:46:55
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1370 forum posts
159 photos

Do what Ian P did. Get a VFD and run your motor as it should be used with a 3 phase supply. This will give you lots of advantages over a single phase motor. There are lots of threads covering this.

Martin C

sean logie29/07/2017 09:20:11
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590 forum posts
90 photos
Hmmmm.... not really wanting to stump up for a vfd. I've set myself a hard budget for getting this mill up and running . Not even sure if I plan in keep it that long .

Sean
Brian Sweeting29/07/2017 17:37:39
421 forum posts
1 photos

Agreed, it is a three phase motor, it can be run on 230v single phase but will probably overheat, as you have found.

The single phase method is called the Steinmetz method. Our friend Google will find quite a few useful results.

Martin Cargill29/07/2017 18:55:14
135 forum posts

Sean.

There is a second hand inverter on ebay just now that will run your motor. Price is £55 (buy it now price). This will give you a whole range of simple drive options including reversing and variable speed etc. Its got to be easier fitting/running this than any of the other options for trying to run a 3 phase motor from a single phase supply.

Martin

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