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Corrosive liquids. ...................................

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not done it yet15/07/2017 17:54:17
1874 forum posts
11 photos

Amazing that hydroflouric is on open sale. Just too dangerous. Nitric, sulphuric and other strong acids(or strong alkalis, for that matter) are bad enough in the hands of idiots or criminals, but HF is in a different league. At least the sales will be recorded (hopefully).

There are too many legitimate uses of chemicals to actually ban most, but hese criminals can source at least battery acid quite easily - and far cheaper than HF. Traceable records of sales will be the best they can do, I think.

Not all guns are banned. One can own, and use them, without being a danger to the public, but most criminals use guns supplied by a black market - often stolen or illegally imported. That does not impact our hobby, - but I dare to say it would be far from impossible for someone to make one on our machines. After all, they can bemade on 3D printers these days.

Where do you stop? Better to target the criminals with huge consequences, but that would still not eradicate the problem completely.

If theft is the motive, why use anything so dangerous? The recent case of the young lady and her cousin being doused with sulphuric acid would appear to have different motive. The person responsible should be locked away for a very loong time.

Watford15/07/2017 18:30:04
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69 forum posts
8 photos

Surely the miscreants would not purchase the stuff with their precious drug money, they would just nick it. So what would be the point of the legislation anyway?

Mike

Tim Stevens15/07/2017 20:40:21
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833 forum posts

The current spate of throwings in the UK seems to me to have factors in common, as well as the use of acid. Mopeds (or scooters) are involved, including their theft. Now the only uses of mopeds (apart from messing about in fields) is by pizza delivery riders, and those of other foodstuffs.

Might this all be some sort of territorial dispute, then?

Not that I know - I have had dealings with lots of moped owners, but I have never had a delivery by one.

Cheers, Tim

Nick_G15/07/2017 20:46:56
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1808 forum posts
744 photos
Posted by Tim Stevens on 15/07/2017 20:40:21:

Now the only uses of mopeds (apart from messing about in fields) is by pizza delivery riders, and those of other foodstuffs.

Cheers, Tim

.

Have you never been to a city or large town. ??? cheeky

Vast quantities of mopeds are used by commuters. yes

Nick

vintagengineer15/07/2017 22:01:17
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458 forum posts
6 photos

Let's get out of the EU and bring back the Birch! That will stop the buggers!

Andrew Evans15/07/2017 22:36:31
157 forum posts
Yes, and bring back National Service and hanging, which is too good for them. If we had thrown acid in my day the local copper would given us a clip round the ear and we certainly wouldn't have done it again. You can't touch em nowadays, it's all elf and safety and human rights.
Andrew Evans15/07/2017 22:48:59
157 forum posts
HF is bad, if that got thrown on someone they would probably be dead. It's used in Geology to dissolve silica based rock to extract organic material. Skin is no barrier to it and it passes through to attack bones and internal organs. Breathing HF fumes can result in your lungs filling with liquid and you drown. I used it a lot and you had to have an emergency shower system installed in the event of a spillage and only use it in a fume cupboard. Floors had to be specially sealed to prevent any leaks to floors below.
Hopper16/07/2017 07:17:10
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2654 forum posts
41 photos

More people are killed by water than acid. Will they ban water too?

Michael-w16/07/2017 07:37:25
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2018 forum posts
49 photos
Posted by Hopper on 16/07/2017 07:17:10:

More people are killed by water than acid. Will they ban water too?

It's a lot harder to wield as a weapon though. cheeky

Michael W

Pero16/07/2017 07:43:15
55 forum posts

Hopper

Sounds like I had better practice my beer drinking just in case ....

What worries me more is that they may ban acetic acid (aka vinegar) on my fish and chips.

The problem with all these regulations and bans is that they only impact on the law abiding. The problem of illegal use of guns, acids, etc, etc. is that they are used by people who never intended to obey the rules in the first place and who seem to find no difficulty in obtaining their requirements.

Perhaps following the recent incidents a ban on mopeds might also be considered.

Personally I prefer the thought of extreme punishment of those using guns etc. for offensive purposes rather than those using them appropriately.

While the death penalty may not be the ultimate deterrent it certainly does curtail the number of repeat offences!

Should I be saying this on a Sunday?

Pero

Jon Gibbs16/07/2017 08:53:44
738 forum posts

I hesitate to put an opposite point of view here but some regulation is necessary and does work.

Take gun control. We have some of the toughest gun controls anywhere, and I know the complete ban on pistols is OTT, but the upside is that our home grown Islamist terrorists have only been able to use vehicles and wield knives in their attacks - thankfully. In countries where semi and automatic weapons are more available (e.g. Paris Bataclan and Charlie Hebdo), the death toll in similar attacks has been much higher.

Would it really do much harm to have corrosive products under lock and key and sell them to over 18's with ID only?

I also think that corrosive liquids in squirt bottles should be reclassified as offensive weapons and the intent to mutilate and maim needs to be taken more seriously in sentencing.

Jon

Mike16/07/2017 08:54:40
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713 forum posts
6 photos

As far as I'm concerned, Pero, you can say it on any day you like because it is undeniable fact. Vintageengineer has a good idea, too. Plenty of birch trees around here - give me a small, sharp axe and I could equip the nation's courts. Not so sure about National Service, but only because the nation couldn't afford it. If things continue the way they are going, thanks to knee-jerk reactions by politicians, we shan't be able to put vinegar on our chips, unblock the drains, clean the patio, or use many other useful household products - and that's before we start thinking about what we might use in the workshop.

Already, paint stripper hardly works, and paint is generally thin, watery stuff, Oh, I could go on for ever, but I guess I've had by grumpy ten minutes for today.............

Clive India16/07/2017 09:14:53
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139 forum posts

Have no fear folks, Diane Abbot that well-known purveyor of common sense, was on the telly telling us all acids should be restricted to builders etc. While there is such a good understanding of the issues - our future is in good hands.

By the way, I think she could be the new Doctor Who.

Mike16/07/2017 09:31:19
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713 forum posts
6 photos

Perhaps we should confiscate the acid in Diane Abbot's car battery, it being so dangerous? I wonder how she'd get on then!

the artfull-codger16/07/2017 10:15:18
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200 forum posts

We used H F acid a lot in the glass trade, it's used with other acids & mica for decroative work in the embossing deprtment for the fancy old pub windows & mirrors etc, some beautifull effects are made with it, of course the embossers won't give any secrets of their craft away!! .

SillyOldDuffer16/07/2017 11:26:39
2927 forum posts
593 photos

Tut! I see a few chaps suggesting that severe punishments prevent crime. If only! Actually the biggest deterrent by far is the certainty of getting caught.

Back in the good old days capital punishment was applicable to many minor offences in England. The risk of public execution did not reduce the crime-rate. What did make a big difference was street lighting and professional policing. It also helps to reduce discontent by sharing wealth, power and opportunities.

Suicide attackers will never be put off by the death penalty. Their motives are political and the solution, like much else in life, requires finesse.

The thought of criminals being viciously punished may make us feel better but that's all it achieves. Never forget that for every complex problem there is an answer that is quick, cheap, easy and WRONG!

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 16/07/2017 11:27:24

Circlip16/07/2017 12:30:33
868 forum posts

"Actually the biggest deterrent by far is the certainty of getting caught."

What a load of bovine excreta they have NO FEAR of being caught.

Wonder how many would commit whatever if the same action was carried out on them as punishment? Can't do that though, that would mean lowering ourselves to the same obnoxious level.

Regards Ian.

Michael-w16/07/2017 12:41:02
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2018 forum posts
49 photos
The whole idea of crime means that you have a punishment. The two go hand in hand.
If you dont have a punishment theres no point in having crimes. Agreed? So it might not be nice or pretty what then follows but its neccessary. Thats all it comes down to. If they tried the war criminals of WW2 today. They would not be able to hang them or detain indefinitely like they did in the past. That seems rather odd to me.

Edited By Michael-w on 16/07/2017 12:46:15

Hopper16/07/2017 12:50:01
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2654 forum posts
41 photos
Posted by Michael-w on 16/07/2017 12:41:02:
The whole idea of crime means that you have a punishment. The two go hand in hand.
If you dont have a punishment theres no point in having crimes. Agreed? So it might not be nice or pretty what then follows but its neccessary. Thats all it comes down to. If they tried the war criminals of WW2 today. They would not be able to hang them or detain indefinitely like they did in the past. That seems rather odd to me.

Edited By Michael-w on 16/07/2017 12:46:15

And yet in Sweden their sentencing is very lenient and their jails are like holiday camps compared with American prisons. Yet Sweden has a far lower crime rate than America.

Jon Gibbs16/07/2017 12:59:41
738 forum posts
Posted by Circlip on 16/07/2017 12:30:33:

What a load of bovine excreta they have NO FEAR of being caught.

...but it has been widely reported that the reason acid is becoming a weapon of choice is precisely to avoid being caught - no DNA and little proof who the attacker is and lighter sentences than carrying and using a knife.

If this is true then there clearly is a fear of being caught IMHO.

Jon

Edited By Jon Gibbs on 16/07/2017 13:00:24

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