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Multifix Threading tooling and options

Komet Cutter s for Multifix threading systems, and other options

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Joseph Noci 113/06/2017 10:28:54
489 forum posts
827 photos

There is a thread on this subject, but so old and buried that my last post on that went the way of the wind..

I have purchased a bunch of Mulitfix toolholders from Create Tool including the retracting threading toolholder, which uses KOMET inserts. I had a hard time finding inserts, in fact could not, and Nina at Create Tool obliged my request to make me a modified tool shaft I could self machine to take standard threading inserts.

Some folk simply sawed the head off the standard holder and welded on a head from a normal threading tool holder, but that did not seem so great..

I sent her this, indicating that the red block should be a solid block, un-hardened, so I could machine it.

t1_block.jpg

t2_block.jpg

She sent back this drawing which I accepted and that is what they made for me - I took 2 and will modify for suitable inserts soon.

threading cutter holder.jpg

And Then....I found a well priced, very quick source for KOMET threading inserts, and other bits, in Germany - Hoffmann Group ( I think they are in the UK as well?) 5 Day delivery from order to my door in Namibia! Takes 8 days for something from neighbouring South Africa..

komet cutters.jpg

I suppose I have to make the usual statement - not associated or have any interests in Create Tool nor Hoffmann, but both were utterly professional, went out of their way to help, responded right away - recommended!

Michael Gilligan13/06/2017 10:45:45
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13298 forum posts
578 photos

That's excellent, Joseph

... It's refreshing when something goes right !!

MichaelG.

SteveI13/06/2017 12:19:28
245 forum posts
17 photos

Joseph,

Nice. I would very much appreciate you letting me know your contact in Hoffmann as I want to find out if ACME 29° inserts are available. I have been told that they used to be and have seen them for sale in the USA but it was not ecomonical for me to source a small quantity. Please PM me if you don't want to post the details publicly.

I have purchased my komet fg 1 and fg 2 inserts from ebay.de. 55° HSS, 60° HSS, and trapezoidal sizes all come up for sale regularly, and 60° (brazed) carbide do occasionally. Most of the time the seller only posts to Germany but I have found if you write to them first they are happy to post internationally.

My AFE has a different design insert holder to the Swiss originals. It is removable from the shaft and it can also be adjusted to the helix angle of the thread being cut.

multifix-afe-west-german-insert-holder.jpg

multifix-afe-west-german-shaft-end.jpg

On the to do list is to make a replacement removable part that takes inserts. I have no idea who made this version the only marking it has is "Made in West Germany". Does anyone know? I have seen komet threading tool holders that have this same design so have wondered if it was a komet item. I would like to get a B sized version and knowing who made it may help the search. Please also let me know who your contact in create tools is as I am thinking about ordering some oversized tool holder blanks.

Thanks,

Steve

Joseph Noci 113/06/2017 16:41:52
489 forum posts
827 photos

Hi Steve - I sent the info in a PM..

Not sure if it needs to be so secretive, but maybe I be banned for advertising..

Joe

Muzzer13/06/2017 18:18:41
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2904 forum posts
448 photos

I also got my (A sized) Multifix set from Create Tool but didn't (and can't) see anything about these threading toolholders. Where did you see them?

As some of us are grownups, could you post details here of who to contact at Hoffmann for the Komet parts?

Thanks!

Murray

Neil Wyatt13/06/2017 19:21:49
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Moderator
16108 forum posts
675 photos
73 articles

Passing on contact details is OK.

Neil

Nick_G13/06/2017 19:30:45
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1808 forum posts
744 photos
Posted by Muzzer on 13/06/2017 18:18:41:

but didn't (and can't) see anything about these threading toolholders. Where did you see them?

Murray

.

Here you go. **LINK**

You may need to run a translator buy 'right clicking'.

Nick

Muzzer13/06/2017 19:41:44
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2904 forum posts
448 photos

I've seen the EU ones with "proper" pricing and gone away to sit down before. However, Joe said "I have purchased a bunch of Mulitfix toolholders from Create Tool including the retracting threading toolholder, which uses KOMET inserts", which suggests somewhat more feasible numbers.

Did you actually by the threading toolholder from elsewhere, Joe?

Murray

Joseph Noci 113/06/2017 20:39:59
489 forum posts
827 photos

Murray and Co;

Create tool does not keep the threading holders 'on the shelf' - they make them up to order, within 2 weeks.

The holders are coded AFE ( External) and AFI ( Internal), A indicating size.

Nina is the Lass at Create Tool, and she is a great lady to deal with. Just explain what you are after and she will find a way and make it available. The AFE and AFI I bought were less than 2/3 the EU pricing, and as far as I am concerned are indistinguishable from the 'Real' thing - I would be not be surprised if in fact they supply the EU sellers!

**LINK**

The link Nick provided is the German supplier with an EU markup..

The Hoffmann contact for KOMET inserts is Katharina Hartner:

**LINK**

Equally helpful and professional.

The inserts I obtained FG1 size/series...and reflect EU pricing..

Joe

SteveI13/06/2017 20:54:41
245 forum posts
17 photos

Regarding the debate about sourcing the retracting threading tool holders I have been told by another none definitive source that create do supply the #FE (external threading) but I do not know if they do the #FI (internal). Having said that my AFE and AFI (both marked "Made in West Germany" ) use exactly the same body design so it would be possible to make your own and also based on Joe's modifed AFI it would be a minor job to turn that in to a AFI. There is another version of the #FI design where the lever is not at the rear I don't know the design of that body component compared to the #FE.

 

I have also been told that they AXA do not work in the swiss or create versions. I do not know first hand if that is true. That internet gossip has resulted in me never considering to buy any AXA. It would be nice if someone could confirm or deny it. I did buy an A sized blank without maker markings from ebay.de and it did not fit with my J F Minder Swiss tool post and was not useable I am yet to blue it up and see if it is possible to get it working. For the record I know first hand that the create work fine in the original J F Minder Swiss made tool posts and the "Multi suisse" swiss made tool posts.

 

Steve

 

EDIT: to remove an automatically added smiley.

Edited By SteveI on 13/06/2017 20:56:16

Edited By SteveI on 13/06/2017 20:57:36

Joseph Noci 114/06/2017 08:52:42
489 forum posts
827 photos

To clear some of the muddlin' 'n maudlin' in the post...

Not sure how much more definitive the 'story' can be - From Create Tool

I purchased one size A , external threading holder, complete with normal slide-shaft KOMET insert holder - Type AFE.

I also purchased one size A, internal threading holder, which as is typical of these, takes normal internal threading bars, ie, like a boring bar but with IR style inserts.

The 'modification' is just a swappable slide shaft with the end un-machined ( No KOMET fitting) so I can machine to take ER16 (or smaller) type inserts.

The other toolholders I purchased are a mix of the standard holder for square/rectangular cross section cutting tools and the boring bar holder - A holder with a V base and also some V inserts that slip into the V of the holder, allowing use of small diameter boring bars.

All these items fit my 'original' Multi Suisse tool post perfectly. Or at least the toolpost is labelled as such..

A chat with the African Regional Sales Rep at Top-Maschinen ( AXA folk) reveals ..

The Chinese holders will not fit our toolposts, and vise-versa, because the Chinese cannot maintain the tolerances of the product in manufacture....????

Will not say anything more! Sounds like a bit of nonsense to me. The implication is that they should fit, but sometimes do and sometimes don't due to poor tolerance control...But when when I asked if the designs are the same, or are there any fundamental structure deltas, the chap avoided answering , so I am not sure what the issue is. Maybe they had made changes to avoid proprietary issues? So the internet gossip is fueled even by the supplier..

toolpost2.jpg

Muzzer14/06/2017 10:42:09
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2904 forum posts
448 photos

Thanks Joe.

Obviously, having ordered my Multifix tooling from Create I am familiar with Nina and the excellent service provided. However, not being psychic yet, I naively assumed that if threading toolholders were not listed on the Create site, that meant they didn't make and sell them. I'm still to see anything on their site to suggest they do but I will take your word for it and enquire directly. It's odd that they don't seem to advertise them? I'd have got some first time around if I'd known.

I agree it seems very likely that Create supply many of the systems sold under different names. The evasive / creative(!) nature of the various responses I have seen seems to support that. And the fact that they are able to make variations on the toolholder to your request suggests that they actually manufacture some or all of the components, rather than simply resell them.

Dunno if you saw my post the other day but I recently made up a pillar to mount the Multifix directly to the cross slide, thus eliminating the top slide. I have yet to determine if any increased rigidity more than offsets the loss of the ability to cut at an angle but t seemed like a good idea at the time.

Fitted

Murray

Joseph Noci 112/07/2017 12:18:51
489 forum posts
827 photos

My Multifix tool holders all arrived from Create tools, and I am very happy with the goods. All fit the Swiss original tool post just fine, workmanship and quality is very good indeed. The blank shaft s for external retractable threading tool holders came out very well indeed. ready to be machined to take standard threading (ER) inserts.

Size A, and enough to keep the EMCO 14D happy..

A happy Chappy..

Joe

multifix toys.jpg

internal-external threading holders.jpg

internal-external threading holders1.jpg

The blank shaft/holder

threading holder and blank shaft.jpg

threading holder and blank shaft1.jpg

Tractor man12/07/2017 14:28:37
426 forum posts
1 photos
Wonderful set of tool holders Joe. Would love to know contact details for create tools so I can cost the threading tools. Mick
Joseph Noci 112/07/2017 14:51:30
489 forum posts
827 photos

Hi Mick.

Mail Nina at Create tool - nina@createtool.com - and ask for xFE ( External) or xFI ( Internal) threading holders.

The x being the size you want - A, B, C etc size.

You will not find the retracting holders on the web site stock list - no idea why, but they sell them - Ask Nina and she will sort you out...

Joe

Steve Pavey12/07/2017 14:53:55
280 forum posts
32 photos

Link to the Create web site page which shows the most common sizes on offer http://www.createtool.com/list.asp?cid=33

I think you'll have to email them to get a price for the threading tools, but as the others have said they are very efficient and you will get a response (bear in mind the time difference though).

Edited By Steve Pavey on 12/07/2017 14:55:35

Tractor man12/07/2017 15:45:00
426 forum posts
1 photos
Joe thanks for the information. I will send an email and find out the cost. Best regards Mick
David Lindquist31/01/2018 02:00:38
20 forum posts

I'm reviving this thread as I have found a U.S. source for the FG1 and FG2 threading tools. These can be gotten from MSC Industrial Supply. BUT first you want to go here: https://www.kometgroup.com/en/home/ and down load the "KomPass Turning April 2015" catalog. On page 54 are Komet's order numbers for the various FG1 and FG2 threading inserts. You need these to make sense of MSC's product descriptions which are sketchy and in some cases erroneous, e.g. they describe all the inserts as being for Acme threads. For example MSC's 62743083 is shown as Komet's H11 12000.91, which you can see from Komet's catalogue is the insert for 60 degree threads, to a pitch as coarse as 3mm or 8 T.P.I.

MSC doesn't stock these, they are shipped directly from Komet of America. Delivery for me took two weeks. I hope this helps.

David

David Lindquist31/01/2018 02:12:43
20 forum posts

I'm sorry, it looks like you will have to copy and paste that link to get the Komet catalog. When you do you will start at the top with Downloads which leads to catalogs/flyers from there choose "Turning" and you will get two choices, one of which is "KomPass Turning".

Here: https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Indexable-Cutting-Tools/Indexable-Inserts/Threading-Thread-Mill-Inserts/Threading-Inserts?navid=12107172+4294658132 are all the FG1 and FG2 inserts MSC lists. Each shows the Komet order number in the fine print; they omit the spaces and the dots. It looks like they can supply all the inserts in Komet's 2015 catalog.

David

Michael Gilligan31/01/2018 08:52:29
avatar
13298 forum posts
578 photos
Posted by David Lindquist on 31/01/2018 02:12:43:

I'm sorry, it looks like you will have to copy and paste that link to get the Komet catalog.

.

With a bit of luck; this should do it **LINK**

https://www.kometgroup.com/fileadmin/user_upload/9_downloads/kompass/KomPass-Turning_GB.pdf

Thanks for the 'find' David yes

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 31/01/2018 08:53:28

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