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Posilock collets

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Trevorh20/02/2017 09:33:18
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Hi all,

I have just purchased a Warco WM 16, My previous Mill/Drill was an old Alpine DM 25

Question - the Alpine has an MT3 where as the WM 16 has MT2

I have a set of MT3 posilock chuck, mill and cutters

Will the collets fit an MT2 chuck or do I have to start over?

All of my mills are threaded

Sorry if I haven't explained very well

Cheers

Trevor

Neil Wyatt20/02/2017 09:39:03
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You should be able to get an MT2 posilock chuck that will take your collets.

You may also be able to just get a new arbor for the existing chuck.

Neil

Trevorh20/02/2017 09:47:09
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Hi Neil, thanks, I didn't realise that the arbor could be changed

I will check tonight

Thanks

Neil Wyatt20/02/2017 11:37:48
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Posted by Trevorh on 20/02/2017 09:47:09:

Hi Neil, thanks, I didn't realise that the arbor could be changed

I will check tonight

Not always, but some milling chucks come with separate arbors, more usual for boring heads.

But your collets should fit any posilock/osborn titanic meant for the same range of sizes. You might find it cheaper to buy a whole set and then sell yours complete.

Trevorh20/02/2017 12:29:40
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Thanks Neil,

that's certainly worth considering as I have both metric and imperial sets

cheers

Clive Foster20/02/2017 12:30:00
2836 forum posts
103 photos

My Posilock chuck has an integral R8 arbor.

Agree with Neil that you are best off selling your set complete and buying a new set on MT 2 arbor.

Posilocks were generally sold to the amateur market as complete sets in nice boxes. About the only readily available spares are extra collets to make metric or imperial sets dual standard. Amateurs pretty much never wear out sets so they don't get broken for parts.

Clive.

John Haine20/02/2017 13:44:22
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242 photos

Or sell the kit complete and buy ER25 or 32. Though your mills are threaded they will probably be held quite firmly enough in an ER collet. I have a number of threaded mills that are used in either R8 or ER16 collets with no problem.

Trevorh20/02/2017 13:56:04
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Hi John,

That was going to be another question on whether its possible to use the threaded Mills in that type of holder as the OD is the same along the complete length of the shank inclusive of the threaded area

cheers Trevor

RICHARD GREEN 220/02/2017 14:03:23
323 forum posts
192 photos

Hello Trevor,

I would stick with the Pozilock type of collets for threaded shank cutters,

The ER types cant be as secure, just gripping on the shank by friction, I've got some but rarely use them.

I'm waiting to be shot down in flames on this one..........................................................

Richard.

Clive Foster20/02/2017 16:11:36
2836 forum posts
103 photos

ER collets are always secure if you tighten them up to the specified torques. Which are scary and certainly not achievable with the little pressed steel spanner you get in the set. One firm recommends 42 ft lb for ER 16, 59 for ER 20, 77 for ER 25 and 100 for ER 32. I'd not care to be hauling that hard on a spindle only restrained by the usual lock pin. Ball bearing nuts help a lot but you still need things tight.

For all sorts of reasons an ER may hold fine at much lower torque but its only guaranteed to hit its retention and TIR specifications if tightened to specifications. With their long compression range ERs are wonderful beasties but there are some inherent engineering compromises. They do have to be very well made to hit peak performance. I pretty much never use my set. Posilock or direct in the spindle R8 type usually.

Clive.

MW20/02/2017 16:35:47
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2051 forum posts
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Posted by RICHARD GREEN 2 on 20/02/2017 14:03:23:

Hello Trevor,

I would stick with the Pozilock type of collets for threaded shank cutters,

The ER types cant be as secure, just gripping on the shank by friction, I've got some but rarely use them.

I'm waiting to be shot down in flames on this one..........................................................

Richard.

Hmmm, I dunno, this is more interesting than it is flammable.

You make a good point, with the collet forced up into the thread, it certainly makes sense that would provide more grip but I find that due to the thickness of the pozilock collets they don't clamp down or "squeeze anywhere near as much as the ER ones do. (I suppose that could be a good thing for the pozilocks' life time)

So maybe the ER compensates for itself in that area. Never had a problem with slipping unless I didn't do it up as hard as I should by mistake. Anyone ever had a problem with spindle collets in that regard? I haven't heard anyone moan about it.

Food for thought, or flaming if someone can contrive a reason, working for Rego-fix perhaps!surprise

Michael W

Clive Foster20/02/2017 17:29:13
2836 forum posts
103 photos

Pozilocks, Clarkson et al dont really squeeze significantly on the shank anyway during installation. Initial collet action is more for getting things concentric than outright grip. Which is why you hand tighten the outer ring onto its stop and draw the collet out against the seat by screwing the cutter in. Bumping the ring up a nats doobie with the spanner gives a bit of grip but thats mostly to keep things under control when cutting starts. The real holding comes from the cutter screwing in further under cutting loads. Unless you actually manage to find cutting loads that will actually start unscrewing the cutter under the screw thread ensures that the only way the cutter is pulling out will be to bring both collet and outer ring too. Which will be an impressive smash up.

Clarkson, Posilock et al balance the loads as the cutter screws out, pushing the collet forward until it has enough grip to stop the cutter turning. So the exact extension isn't known. Which is why they are out of favour for CNC purposes. Only a thou or three variation but thats enough to mess things up. If you try to set things up like a conventional collet by tightening the outer ring to make it grip the balance will be upset, movement become unpredictable and there is a good chance of shattering the centred end of smaller cutters. I have a pair of 4 mm with ends shattered that way due to trying to use the system like a normal collet.

Clive

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