By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by Allendale Jan 24th

Silver Solder Stocks

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
Brian H07/02/2017 09:39:16
avatar
2214 forum posts
113 photos

I've just been looking for something in the workshop and realised that I have too much silver solder!

I found some Easiflo No1 and had a play with it; its wonderful stuff as there seems to be some runny component that gets through joints and leaves behind a less runny component that makes a nice fillet, ideal for simulating castings. Is this still available??

I also found some Silverflo 24 which I believe can be used in step-soldering as it is high melting point and does not remelt when using Easiflo 2 or Silverflo 55.

I've Had a play but the melting point is too high for most of my stuff so I've put it on Ebay in the hope of generating some funds for my present project!

I've also found some Easiflo 2 and some Silverflo 55 which will come in handy.

Brian

Russell Eberhardt07/02/2017 16:07:24
avatar
2695 forum posts
86 photos
Posted by Brian Hutchings on 07/02/2017 09:39:16:I found some Easiflo No1 and had a play with it; its wonderful stuff as there seems to be some runny component that gets through joints and leaves behind a less runny component that makes a nice fillet, ideal for simulating castings. Is this still available??

You might be able to find the equivalent in the US but it is banned in Europe due to its cadmium content. Perhaps it could make a comeback after Brexit wink

Russell.

Brian H07/02/2017 18:41:49
avatar
2214 forum posts
113 photos

Quote "You might be able to find the equivalent in the US but it is banned in Europe due to its cadmium content. Perhaps it could make a comeback after Brexit wink"

Thanks Russell, I wondered if the cadmium content would be a problem. Incidentally, is cadmium a problem when selling privately?

Brian

Edited By Brian Hutchings on 07/02/2017 18:42:12

MW07/02/2017 19:04:03
avatar
2051 forum posts
51 photos
Posted by Brian Hutchings on 07/02/2017 18:41:49:

Thanks Russell, I wondered if the cadmium content would be a problem. Incidentally, is cadmium a problem when selling privately?

Brian

I wouldn't have thought so, what with old cadmium batteries lying around, it would be a little tricky to police. It just means it's been phased out in a production sense rather than banned in entirety.

Some people still have creosote in their garden storage and on farms, it doesn't mean they have to dump it.

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 07/02/2017 19:05:43

the artfull-codger07/02/2017 21:04:17
avatar
268 forum posts

Michael- w, I do my sheds gates & railings with creosote mixed with old engine oil, I take the gates off for a couple of weeks to give it time to dry so the postman doesn't get any on his clothes,you can still buy the genuine stuff if you know where to get it.beats all this "creocote" imitation stuff.


Keith Hale08/02/2017 07:50:37
avatar
316 forum posts

According to the (temporary) powers that be in Brussels and their UK enforcers, it is illegal to "place cadmium bearing silver solder in the market".

Not only is it illegal to sell it, it is illegal to give it away as samples! The new larger market for cadmium free alloys has to be protected so as not to affect future sales! Existing stocks, in sheds and workshops around the country are impossible to control or police.

Whatever you do decide to do with your easiflo is a personal choice. It is not an offence for you to use it. Just be careful, sensible and responsible. Just don't shout about being prepared to trade it!

Don't blame me or CuP Alloys. We were not part of the stitch up.

Post Brexit? Who knows? There are no stocks of these alloys in Europe. Any past or future supplier is likely to want a 50 kg order to justify restarting production or, put it another way, 6000 rods 1.5mm dia x 500!

If they ever become commercially available again, CuP Alloys will tell you all - loud and clear. But, having now got used to the cadmium free alloys, do you want to change again?

Keith

Brian H08/02/2017 08:12:26
avatar
2214 forum posts
113 photos

Many thanks for the clarification Keith. I shall keep the Easiflo 2 for my own use in that case.

Brian

KWIL08/02/2017 10:20:56
3413 forum posts
66 photos

Quote fro HSE .

There are some exceptions, relating to defence, aerospace or safety-related use and anyone wishing to make use of these should consult the European legislation direct. So in theory there must be some being made!

Bob Stevenson08/02/2017 10:31:34
548 forum posts
7 photos

............but has anyone got the eurofriendly stuff to actually work?..........if you have then please tell us how!

Roderick Jenkins08/02/2017 11:07:55
avatar
2122 forum posts
582 photos
Posted by Bob Stevenson on 08/02/2017 10:31:34:

............but has anyone got the eurofriendly stuff to actually work?..........if you have then please tell us how!

Heat! I used this hearth with a Sievert 26kW (2942P) burner. Also used a ceramic insulation blanket.

hearth.jpg

This burn was with 38% Ag alloy and HT flux

rrb 18.jpg

rrb 19.jpg

This assembly with 55% Ag, also HT flux

rrb 23.jpg

It works. Melting temperatures are only about 30C higher than cadmium bearing alloys.

HTH,

Rod

Russell Eberhardt08/02/2017 14:43:26
avatar
2695 forum posts
86 photos
Posted by CuP Alloys 1 on 08/02/2017 07:50:37:

Not only is it illegal to sell it, it is illegal to give it away as samples!

What is actually illegal is "placing it on the market". So, if you import it for private use that should be OK. If you give some to a friend that is also O.K. but you cannot advertise it for sale. In general second hand products are not covered by these directives so you surplus old stock can be sold? Perhaps that's debatable.

Russell.

Keith Hale08/02/2017 14:50:12
avatar
316 forum posts

As Rod explained, you just need more heat. His approach is spot on. Possibly use a bigger burner and insulation to keep the heat in. You may need a longer life flux like HT5

Watch the flux. When it has melted and started to flow apply the alloy. It is pointless trying to braze until the flux has melted. The joint is simply not hot enough. Do not heat the alloy. Allow it to get its' heat from the joint. Getting the alloy hot is one hing - getting the joint hot enough is another. If the joint is cold the alloy won't flow

GOLDEN RULE FOR SILVER SOLDERING/BRAZING

HEAT THE JOINT NOT THE ROD

Keith

Phil H108/02/2017 15:11:02
395 forum posts
46 photos

Keith,

I have a Rob Roy boiler (untested) that I silver soldered almost entirely with Easyflo No 2 about 30 years ago. I do not have any solder left - so if I discover leaks during its hydraulic test Im guessing that the new solders with a higher melting temperature would be quite a challenge to use. Or do you think I'd be ok?

PhilH

Phil H108/02/2017 15:14:30
395 forum posts
46 photos

Oh by the way, having had about 35 years of experience working with our continental friends - I suspect it is only the British who would take notice and apply EU rules. The continentals (from my experience) simply don't ask or avoid them.

Phil H

Brian H08/02/2017 15:27:12
avatar
2214 forum posts
113 photos

Bob, the eurofriendly stuff I would assume are the Silverfo types such as Silverflo 24 and Silverflo 55 (Johnson-Matthey).

I have tried both and they seem to be fine allbeit with the previously mentioned slightly higher temperatures (which may be a problem if repairing an existing boiler that used Easyflo).

I found that the Silverfo 24 was a higher temperature than I am likely to use but I still have some Easyflo and Easyflo 2.

Keith Hale09/02/2017 07:48:06
avatar
316 forum posts

Rob,

1) The re-melt temperature of easi-flo2 is higher than the original.

2) Even if it melts ,Easi-flo 2 is totally compatible with 455. 455 will repair any leaks.

3) Any molten silver solder will be retained in the joint gap by capillary action (the fundamental principle behind the process). Ensure a good coverage of flux to prevent oxidation and dewetting of the alloy = another leak. Use HT5 flux.

Bob,

I suggest to anyone struggllng with Silverflo 24 as the first alloy in a step-brazing operation to simply switch to a lower melting point alloy like 438. 438 and 455 work together well.

For more information go to **LINK**

regards

Keith (Hale - no relation to Phil!)

Stueeee22/07/2021 19:28:28
avatar
100 forum posts

Exhuming this ancient thread as it seemed worth noting that Cadmium bearing Silver Solder does seem to be appearing for sale in a few places in the UK now. I'm presuming it's now OK to sell it again as we aren't members of the the EU who banned the sale of Cadmium bearing Silver Solder noted in previous posts. Recently I was down to my last couple of inches of "old stock" Easy-Flo rod, IMO, the difference in the results with this product and the 55% "Cadmium Free" replacement is night and day, especially on difficult joints/materials.

At ebay I've just bought a 250 gram reel of 5 x 1 mm Cadmium bearing Easy-Flo. Was a bit of a challenge to cut a 600mm or so long 1mm wide strip off it, but well worth the effort when I came to use it on a Stainless Steel joint the other night. The stuff I bought proclaims to be old stock but looks to be in as new condition. A quick google brings up cadmium bearing Easy-Flo 2 as being available from a UK based Model Engineering supplier, albeit at what looks like a rather stiff price.

Hopefully this product range will be come more generally available in time.

Stuart Smith 522/07/2021 21:08:52
229 forum posts
27 photos

This document from the HSE outlines the health risks etc:

**LINK**

I wouldn’t have thought that changing rules on cadmium solder would be top of the U.K. governments priority, particularly in view of this document.

Robert Atkinson 222/07/2021 21:11:43
avatar
1073 forum posts
20 photos

Restrictions on Cadmium are international and not just EU. The UK has taken most (if not all) EU regulations into law post brexit. RoHS certainly ha been and Cadmium is still banned with few a exceptions. Even if old stock is available, it should be avoided because it is toxic.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/eis31.pdf

Robert G8RPI.

Martin Kyte22/07/2021 22:36:13
avatar
2536 forum posts
45 photos

Why is it that when something hazardous is taken off the market and replaced with a safer product there is alwys a group who immidiately want to use the old stuff?

regards Martin

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!

Find Model Engineer & Model Engineers' Workshop

Latest Forum Posts
Support Our Partners
Dreweatts
Eccentric July 5 2018
emcomachinetools
rapid Direct
walker midge
JD Metals
cowells
Warco
Eccentric Engineering
Subscription Offer

Latest "For Sale" Ads
Latest "Wanted" Ads
Get In Touch!

Do you want to contact the Model Engineer and Model Engineers' Workshop team?

You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.

Click THIS LINK for full contact details.

For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.

Digital Back Issues

Social Media online

'Like' us on Facebook
Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter
 Twitter Logo

Pin us on Pinterest