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Warco VMC

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ChrisH29/01/2017 16:41:15
817 forum posts
12 photos

H Malc,

TEC have told me the continuous slow speed for their motors on VFD is 25Hz, this is for 24/7 running, so lower than that you have to watch out for the motor not getting enough cooling ai and overheating.

That said, on my lathe with similar set up and a 2kw motor I have run at 16hz no worries during a fairly long screw cutting session, the motor stayed cool. Just something to watch out for. If it gets to be a problem fit an aux. fan blowing air over the motor!

Chris

MalcB29/01/2017 17:00:20
251 forum posts
29 photos

Thanks Chris, thats worth noting. I am aware of the cooling issues on lower running but 24/7 is never going to happen. It will deffo be significantly more intermittent.

I suppose they somehow have to qualify a cut off point for motors that run continually like some compressors and fans etc.

Its as you say for your lathe, excessive periods of continuos running in home workshop are unlikely and if you do happen to suspect some possible chance overheating you can always fall back on a belt change.

petro1head29/01/2017 17:36:09
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556 forum posts
103 photos

Out of interest whats the difference between a Warco WMC and A1S

Lathejack29/01/2017 18:44:23
237 forum posts
289 photos

The Warco A1S mill was, if I remember correctly, a larger beefed up version of the VMC mill. It had the same overall design and appearance, with an 8x30 inch table with increased travel, a larger diameter quill with much more room between the spindle and table.

Earlier versions of it that Warco sold in the 1980's were the same as Myfords VME mill, later Warco A1S mills were of slightly different manufacture with rather spindlier castings used, but still nice machines. More recently Chester and Axminster have been selling new versions of these machines, together with the next one in the range with the head mounted on an adjustable ram. These new ones still appear to be made in Taiwan when I examined one.

I have also owned a Warco VMC mill for about 20 years now, mine is a Taiwanese version made in 1997. I fitted a 1 HP 3 phase motor and VFD a few years ago, and it turned it iinto a much smoother and quieter machine. I have only ever considered replacing it with one of the bigger versions, such as an A1S or a VME.

Edited By Lathejack on 29/01/2017 18:46:55

Edited By Lathejack on 29/01/2017 18:53:34

petro1head29/01/2017 19:46:09
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556 forum posts
103 photos

Did a bit more digging and found a manual for a V1P that was on the Denford forum where the guy who has the manual says the words Warco A1s have been tipex'd out

vip-vertical-milling-machine1.jpg

Lathejack29/01/2017 20:53:29
237 forum posts
289 photos

Well I have just done a bit of digging too. Axminster no longer appear to list it on their site.

Chester, however, do still list it as the 830 VS mill. Apart from the variable speed, this is the same as the later versions of the A1S that Warco offered, up until they discontinued them.

Chester list all the dimentions and capacities. As I mentioned, when I examined one of these machines not too long ago it appeared to be made in Taiwan, and quite nice too. I also see from Chesters site I have just looked at that it has a Taiwan price tag as well.

petro1head29/01/2017 21:24:49
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556 forum posts
103 photos

Well looking at the Chester web site the 830vs looks bigger that the spec on the photo in my previous post

petro1head29/01/2017 23:13:39
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556 forum posts
103 photos

Has anyone bought a VMC used and if so how was it transported. I.e. Did you dismantle it into more manageable pieces

Neil Wyatt30/01/2017 05:07:28
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16076 forum posts
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Posted by MalcB on 29/01/2017 17:00:20:

Thanks Chris, thats worth noting. I am aware of the cooling issues on lower running but 24/7 is never going to happen. It will deffo be significantly more intermittent.

I suppose they somehow have to qualify a cut off point for motors that run continually like some compressors and fans etc.

Its as you say for your lathe, excessive periods of continuos running in home workshop are unlikely and if you do happen to suspect some possible chance overheating you can always fall back on a belt change.

You might be surprised how quickly the motor heats up when run slow.

If you put all your motor parameters into the inverter it should model its heating/cooling behaviour and do its best to stop you overheating it.

MalcB30/01/2017 07:17:08
251 forum posts
29 photos
Posted by petro1head on 29/01/2017 23:13:39:

Has anyone bought a VMC used and if so how was it transported. I.e. Did you dismantle it into more manageable pieces

 

Yes, I bought my early 626 used, so had to travel about 60 miles to collect it.

Picked it up in my motorcycle box trailer which has hinged down loading ramp. The main column is heaviest section, especially with the whole ram assembly attached. I picked it up from a guy who has an engine crane and pallet truck so it was easy to load from his workshop down to the road.

The ram assembly was disconnected at the motor, then dismantled and lifted from the machine. The table has to be then raised until the knee screw is up higher than the bottom of the casting base, table about 4-5" from top of its travel on mine for safe clearance. The column was then unbolted from the base cabinet and lifted clear,.

The high table position leaves column assembly a bit top heavy so care in moving and loading into trailer was needed to stop any tipping.

Parts all loaded into position in trailer using rollers etc where needed and with some two man lifting/manipulating. Column section again most difficult as trailer is a box trailer so couldnt be just craned into position, open trailer would be much easier but more exposed. A van will need same procedure as box trailer.

Loads of ratchet points in my bike trailer fortunately so everyting well ratchetted down.

It will depend on electrical system on machine as to how much electrical disconnection is required, mine has 3 axis DRO already fitted so a tad of extra electrical and mechanical disconnecting required. Table powerfeed was supplied loose and had not installed. From memory I do not think I have missed anything but heyho.

Malc

 

Edited By MalcB on 30/01/2017 07:45:26

MalcB30/01/2017 07:41:34
251 forum posts
29 photos
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 30/01/2017 05:07:28:
Posted by MalcB on 29/01/2017 17:00:20:

Thanks Chris, thats worth noting. I am aware of the cooling issues on lower running but 24/7 is never going to happen. It will deffo be significantly more intermittent.

I suppose they somehow have to qualify a cut off point for motors that run continually like some compressors and fans etc.

Its as you say for your lathe, excessive periods of continuos running in home workshop are unlikely and if you do happen to suspect some possible chance overheating you can always fall back on a belt change.

You might be surprised how quickly the motor heats up when run slow.

If you put all your motor parameters into the inverter it should model its heating/cooling behaviour and do its best to stop you overheating it.

Thanks Neil, already put motor parameters in.

The VFD I installed on my M300 is left at 50Hz and I use the machines own speed ranges. There is a variable frequency pot on its Teco but I haven't needed it on the lathe, so the motor stays at std speed.

This one I am fitting on my 626 is my first where I will be using a pot to control speed so I will be monitoring motor temperature as previously suggested.

I have already had the issue with this particular Teco, of occasionally RCD tripping on the consumer unit when switching down the whole power supply to the machine. The manual shows to disconnect the EMC filter by breaking a link from outside the case to overcome this supply issue which i have now done.

It would actually be easy to fit a switch to the filter to bring in and out as needed if at all necessary.

Gary Wooding30/01/2017 07:43:09
544 forum posts
127 photos
Posted by Andrew Johnston on 29/01/2017 13:51:03:

The correct equation for power is:

Power (W) = Torque (Nm) x angular velocity (rad/s)

Andrew

You're right. I should have said power is proportional to torque x rpm.

Brian O'Connor30/01/2017 10:05:24
60 forum posts
13 photos
Posted by petro1head on 29/01/2017 23:13:39:

Has anyone bought a VMC used and if so how was it transported. I.e. Did you dismantle it into more manageable pieces

I bought a VMC a couple of years ago. As my workshop is in a room in the centre of my house the machine had to be brought in through the front door, manoeuvred around the bottom of the stairs and then through a normal household door into the workshop. It arrived in a fully assembled state, on its base, but with the table removed. It was a tight squeeze in places but we managed it. A Warco mechanic accompanied the dellivery driver and he refitted the table once the mill was in place.

B

petro1head30/01/2017 14:56:11
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556 forum posts
103 photos

[quote]I have only ever considered replacing it with one of the bigger versions, such as an A1S or a VME[/quote]

There is a A1S for sale in the classified section

I considered it but its just too big for my workshop

Original Warco info -

a1s 001.jpg

Lathejack30/01/2017 19:19:13
237 forum posts
289 photos

Very nice. That's one of the earlier versions that Warco offered in the 1980's and early 90's. They have deeper and wider castings than later versions, with scraped guideways on the top surface of the knee and on the vertical guidways of the column, and are the same as the machine that Myford offered as the VME.

The later Warco A1S mills with slimmer and shallower castings, as on the current Chester version, are still good machines but just not as good as the earlier ones. As well as a much narrower saddle, later ones also had a knee casting that wasn't as tall, which I think allowed the knee and table to be wound lower, and contributed to the increase in room between the spindle and table.

I took a look at the A1S for sale, it looks like an earlier type, very nice and well worth the money, but it's just too far away from me even if I was tempted. There is also an equivalent Myford VME on offer for twice the price.

Edited By Lathejack on 30/01/2017 19:21:54

petro1head30/01/2017 19:45:30
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556 forum posts
103 photos

Well I would have bought it but just too big.

I did, however, get a quote to get it from its location to Newcastle and the cost was about £240 which is not too bad at all.

I also a pity that the smaller Warco machines only spin up to 1600rpm

Edited By petro1head on 30/01/2017 19:48:20

Stuart Bridger30/01/2017 20:37:27
301 forum posts
17 photos

I have a VMC and the rubber sheet that keeps swarf out of the slideways has disintegrated. The standard Warco sheet is a bit on the thick side and often fouls my vice. I would be interested to hear what others are using. I see that one owner is using some form of yellow sheet from a photo earlier in this thread.

Thanks

Stuart

petro1head30/01/2017 20:55:52
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556 forum posts
103 photos

I am now looking at the super major nerd

MalcB30/01/2017 21:36:54
251 forum posts
29 photos
Posted by Stuart Bridger on 30/01/2017 20:37:27:

I have a VMC and the rubber sheet that keeps swarf out of the slideways has disintegrated. The standard Warco sheet is a bit on the thick side and often fouls my vice. I would be interested to hear what others are using. I see that one owner is using some form of yellow sheet from a photo earlier in this thread.

Thanks

Stuart

Mine has a set of concertina slideway bellows fitted. They are old now and are starting to fray in places. I have had a quick look on the Bay for a suitable replacement but nothing as of yet. Need to further research a source.

I do have a sheet of 1/16" rubber just about big enough to make similar to whats fitted to new ones now. Dont really want to go down that route yet. Prefer the bellows if i can get some but not desperate yet.

Mike Bondarczuk30/01/2017 21:37:56
91 forum posts
6 photos

Stuart,

For the rubber swarf guards to protect the Y-axis lead screw on my 626 mill I have just last week replaced the torn rubber sheeting with some 250mm wide by 500mm long neoprene rubber sheeting in a 1mm thickness and fixed it to the top of the stand by a 25mm wide steel bar using the two M5 screw holes and the standard metal strap at the table end.

For the cost of just over a couple of pounds for a 500mm by 500mm sheet I have enough material for a replacement when that one tears, which hopefully will not be for some time yet.

Mike

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