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WHERE ARE THE SHAPER USERS ?

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mgnbuk10/02/2019 10:43:35
482 forum posts
10 photos

When the wiring was removed, a crimp fell off too

Not really suprising since none of the remaining connectors are properly crimped. Looks like they were bodged on with a pair of those awful pressed steel abominations sold as "crimping tools" - such "tools" get an otherwise reliable termination system a bad name.

Nigel B (Boxford 8" shaper owner)

Andy Carruthers10/02/2019 11:00:07
avatar
176 forum posts
18 photos

Exactly my thoughts, hence I have replaced all wiring. I do use the same crimps but ensure the right diameter crimp (in this case Red) are used and I also solder the wire to the terminal after crimping

Unless three is a better way which I am not aware of?

Joseph Noci 110/02/2019 11:41:58
438 forum posts
799 photos

If the terminal is properly crimped, you should never solder it - The crimp is gas tight on its own, and soldering results in the solder creeping up the wire away from the crimp. This stiffens the wire at the crimp connection. When fitting the lug to the intended spot, dressing the cables then often results in difficulty in bending the wire, or excessive force results in fractures in the individual copper wires in the cable. Certainly a total no-no in the Mil-Spec environment, but then our shops are a lot more lax I guess..

Anyway, here are some photos of good and better crimps..The second is typical of the Mil environment. The plastic shroud on the lug is itself crimped over the wire insulation, affording some strain-relief to the crimped copper section. The first crimper, typical of a 'good' quality commercial crimper does not crimp the rear shroud section, but the joint is sound, and if the wire fitting is sound, the crimp is as good as the second one.

Commercial crimper on the left ( not a pressed steel type, or at least the jaws are not)

crimp1.jpg

The 'Mil' crimper...It has built-in mechanisms to ensure the wire penetrates the lug the correct amount, and that the lug is positioned properly in the crimper, ensuring the crimp jaws impact the lug at the correct spot.

crimp2.jpg

The other side of the crimper - with a sample crimp, showing the two dots on the plastic shroud - these two dots are for inspection and show that the lug was in the correct position, and the pressure correct. If a lug of to small a size were used for the selected crimper, the two dots would not form. Also nicely seen , the wire end of the shround on the lug shows the over-crimp.

crimp3.jpg

Not a lot to do with Shapers, but..

Joe

not done it yet10/02/2019 11:46:23
2573 forum posts
11 photos

Soldering crimped connectors is regarded as bad practice, especially if vibrations are present - causes fracture failures.

Andy Carruthers10/02/2019 13:25:42
avatar
176 forum posts
18 photos

Thanks Joseph and NDIY - I must get "proper" crimps for future use, I appreciate your comments

Having refitted the motor, can anyone offer me advice on how to secure the mounting plate please? I cannot find reference on YouTube or Internet - a photo would be greatly appreciated. As can be seen, there is a bolt through the casing with washer / nut on the end fully wound out. The bolt thread matches the swivel nut in the mounting plate, but they are not aligned. The motor is not the original so it may be the replacement motor has altered the geometry and is just hanging on the plate giving tension to the belt

motor mount.jpg

SillyOldDuffer10/02/2019 14:29:42
3753 forum posts
746 photos

On the subject of crimps and 'choc-bloc' terminal connectors I've recently discovered 'Powerpole' connectors. They are jolly clever!

dsc05935.jpg

They come in various capacities and different colours, those pictured are 30A. The clever features are:

  • The connectors are hermaphrodites, ie only one connector type is needed - the system doesn't have separate male plugs and female sockets. (Top of photo shows red and black plugged together to connect the blue wires together. Apart from the colour both connectors are identical. The connectors only mate in one of the 4 possible alignments. )
  • The plastic shrouds are side dovetailed so they can be physically combined into blocks. The example shown in my photo is 2x2, but any other combination is possible. The geometry is such that matching pairs of blocks can be made, and it is impossible to connect them wrongly.
  • Wires can be soldered or crimped to the silver tongues.
  • The tongues clip into the plastic shroud
  • Simple and inexpensive.

They've been around for a good few years and have a good reputation for reliability. I now prefer them to screw terminals and male/female crimp connectors for all inline connections.

Dave

Rod Renshaw10/02/2019 14:33:33
34 forum posts

Hi all

I have an Elliott 10M shaper. Can anyone explain how the ratchet mechanism on the power cross feed works? Mine only works intermittently. There seems to be only one pawl and sometimes the feed advances and then retreats slightly and repeatedly with each stroke so I get no proper cross feed advance. I can only guess that the action should depend somehow on friction in the feed screw resisting the backwards movement (and I don't have enough friction) or my machine has somehow lost a second pawl. or perhaps I have not understood it at all.

Regards

Rod

Clive Foster10/02/2019 15:18:30
1581 forum posts
45 photos

Rod

A known issue with the Elliott.

System does depend on friction holding the ratchet wheel in place whilst the pawl retreats. Assuming mine is typical the factory spring is very weak, probably provides a force equivalent to the weight of the pawl at most. As ever crud builds up making the action stiffer so the system doesn't work as it should.

Cure is to clean things out so the pawl moves freely. Big difference with mine between as obtained in apparently well looked after condition and post cleaning. However mine was more likely to stick up so there was no attempt to feed rather than do the forward - backwards dance.

Clive.

Edited By Clive Foster on 10/02/2019 15:18:56

Colin Heseltine10/02/2019 18:23:00
229 forum posts
54 photos

SOD,

I have used the power-pole connectors for a number of years. I have a 12v to 48v power converter for running wireless access points for site surveys. All the batteries have very shorts leads with spade connectors one end (for the battery) and power-pole connectors on the other end. These can then be either plugged into a power-pole connector on the PSU or onto a power-pole connector on the charger. Always a good firm connection.

I use the same connectors on the intelligent charger on my Caterham 7. When charger is disconnected I can then easily add other devices phone chargers, sat nav chargers, laptop chargers in its place.

It pays to purchase the correct crimp tool for the metal connectors, not particularly cheap but good ones never are.

Colin

Rod Renshaw10/02/2019 20:50:41
34 forum posts

Thanks Clive

That seems very promising. Apparently no parts missing and I now have a beeter understanding of how it should work.

I will clean mine out, and check the spring is not too strong, and hopefully that will cure my problem.

Thanks again.

Rod

Clive Foster10/02/2019 21:21:29
1581 forum posts
45 photos

Rod

Just looked at my manual. As the pawl lifting knob, used to disengage the auto-feed system, also works against the same spring and through the same bore maybe a flush through in situ with Plus Gas followed by re-oiling might free things up enough to get it working. Once its going decent oiling and regular exercise should keep it happy.

I avoid WD40 for this sort of thing as any success seems to be rather temporary due to its tendency to leave deposits behind which go gummy after a while.

Clive.

ChrisH10/02/2019 22:41:04
798 forum posts
12 photos

Neil - from your post on 30/09/2016 at 12:27:20, you were looking at the ArcEuroTrade CI angle plate - which is now done by Chronos as well, - did you ever go down this route with your Adept 2 shaper?

Also, did you go down the stepper motor/drive belt to the feed handle route, and if so, could you put some details and/or piccs on here please? Would be very interested in following suite.

Chris

John Olsen11/02/2019 05:02:18
928 forum posts
86 photos
1 articles

In answer to Rod's question about the ratchet mechanism, it seems to be quite common on any shaper that when you reverse the ratchet, all that happens is that the screw oscillates back and forth and does not drive the table. The solution is to turn the lead screw handle in the new direction to take up the slack after changing direction. (It will only go the correct way because the ratchet will prevent you going the wrong way.) Once the screw is actually moving the table there is enough friction to work the ratchet. This is the drill on all three of my shapers. I suppose part of this is that since they are all at least 50 years old, and maybe more than seventy, there is a bit of wear in the lead screw and nut so there is backlash. Once the backlash is taken up it all works well.

John

Kevin D11/02/2019 06:56:48
10 forum posts
81 photos

Hi Rod.

I had the same after rebuilding my 10m. I fitted a teflon washer behind the scale on the cross feed screw and a fiber washer behind the nut and washer on the adjustment end. Slight drag with no back lash. It may show in pic's on my album. The big mod's were to the oiling system. A common reservoir for the 4 oilers on the back with 1/4" air line fittings connecting them. The ram and crank oilers were replaced with 1/4" and 3/8" flare refrigeration fittings with caps. A visible and ample reservoir to fill with oil.

The 10m was stripped to small parts and transported home to the top of a very steep driveway in the boot of a car. My son asked while struggling to help carry the main body casting, what would I do with it. Answer, use it till I fell off the perch, then it would be his problem to get it back down the hill.

Kevin

not done it yet11/02/2019 07:09:57
2573 forum posts
11 photos

They definitely need some friction. My Drummond has a spring-loaded friction piece bearing on the feed screw.

Emma, on her spare room workshop u-toob, was missing the friction pad and could not understand why her feed ratchet did not work properly....

Rod Renshaw12/02/2019 10:09:48
34 forum posts

Thanks to everyone who has addressed my problem with the cross feed ratchet on my 10M.

I had a quick play with it last night and a combination of easing oil and taking up the slack has produced a reliable feed in one direction, but not yet the other. I will work on it again now I know how it is supposed to work and that some friction is required. I do wonder now if I might have caused the problem by oiling the leadscrew and its bearings some weeks ago!

Thanks again

Rod

Mike Crossfield12/02/2019 12:33:07
158 forum posts
9 photos
Posted by ChrisH on 10/02/2019 22:41:04

Also, did you go down the stepper motor/drive belt to the feed handle route, and if so, could you put some details and/or piccs on here please? Would be very interested in following suite.

Chris

If it’s of any interest I modified my Adept 2 by adding a stepper motor on an extension to the feed shaft. Some simple digital electronics gives a range of feed increments, triggered by a micro switch positioned so that it’s actuated by the operating handle.

Mike

not done it yet12/02/2019 14:11:32
2573 forum posts
11 photos
Posted by Mike Crossfield on 12/02/2019 12:33:07:
Posted by ChrisH on 10/02/2019 22:41:04

Also, did you go down the stepper motor/drive belt to the feed handle route, and if so, could you put some details and/or piccs on here please? Would be very interested in following suite.

Chris

If it’s of any interest I modified my Adept 2 by adding a stepper motor on an extension to the feed shaft. Some simple digital electronics gives a range of feed increments, triggered by a micro switch positioned so that it’s actuated by the operating handle.

Mike

Mike,

Can you indicate your micro switch arrangement, please, to overcome advancement on both forward and back strokes.

ChrisH12/02/2019 16:00:01
798 forum posts
12 photos

Mike - I second NDIY's last post, would love to see details of your stepper motor/digital electronic/micro switch arrangement. I have just got an Adept No.2 and the feed modification is high on my "would-like-to-do" list!

Thanks,

Chris

 

Edited By ChrisH on 12/02/2019 16:00:34

Michael Gilligan12/02/2019 17:14:59
avatar
12544 forum posts
544 photos
Posted by ChrisH on 12/02/2019 16:00:01:

Mike - I second NDIY's last post, would love to see details of your stepper motor/digital electronic/micro switch arrangement.

.

Thirded !

MichaelG.

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