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WHERE ARE THE SHAPER USERS ?

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RICHARD GREEN 216/09/2016 11:46:00
294 forum posts
171 photos

We havn't heard much from the shaper users lately, are there any shaper restoration projects going on ? or any interesting shaper jobs,

Richard.

Michael Gilligan16/09/2016 12:06:35
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12523 forum posts
544 photos

I was just getting started with my Adept No.2 when that Swiss pantograph-cum-mill turned up, demanding my attention.

... Hope to get on with the Adept over the winter.

Dave's screw-slotting jig would be a nice job to do in the shaper

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=120623&p=1

['though, having a shaper, you may not need the jig]

dont know MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 16/09/2016 12:07:45

Martin Connelly16/09/2016 13:30:01
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797 forum posts
90 photos

I saw the recent ad on this site for a Perfecto shaper. It got me wondering what operations were only possible with a shaper. Things like keyways and splines in gears and pulleys come to mind as a good reason to use one but I was wondering how much work that is now done on vertical milling machines was previously done with shapers as people could not get a milling machine so easily in the past.

So the question for someone with a shaper is what would be a must have reason for buying one?

Martin

John Stevenson16/09/2016 13:51:12
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Moderator
5068 forum posts
3 photos
Hold a piece of floor down until a better machine comes along
Ajohnw16/09/2016 14:16:01
3631 forum posts
160 photos

They are good at producing flat surfaces - pretty extremely flat if the ram is any good. The finish compared with the simple end of milling can also be better - it's a sort of flat lathe so can produce work with the same degree of finish.

They can be used to make dovetail slides by attaching rope come string to lift the tool on the return stroke. Getting it wrong can make a bit of a mess. I've seen that happen.

They can cut keyways. Internal ones need the cutter on a bar that can pass through the bore and if blind ended they need to run into a hole or slot etc.

Angled work without much complication.

The main reason they fell out of use is metal removal rates even on big meaty ones that can take a rather large cut. Mostly down to using a single point tool and only cutting in one direction. Plus want a better finish stick it on a grinder. Flatness isn't so simple.

crying I have a nice little one but no room to erect it.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 16/09/2016 14:21:45

Edited By Ajohnw on 16/09/2016 14:23:08

Ajohnw16/09/2016 14:20:50
3631 forum posts
160 photos

I wondered if this one had sold - bit of a bargain I suspect.

**LINK**

John

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RICHARD GREEN 216/09/2016 14:24:41
294 forum posts
171 photos

iT'S NOW £85.

Ady116/09/2016 14:26:49
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3460 forum posts
513 photos

Easy peasy tooling, just grind it up and remove huge amounts of guffy hard metal

Nice to watch

Produces proper flat surfaces, you get none of those whirly things on the surface of your workpiece like you get after milling.

Secondary jobs are very accurate because you can remove the individual electrons from metal atoms

A shaper improves your sex life

More recently I have found that that 5% cobalt tooling has fabulous resistance to wear when used on a shaper

EDIT The main reason industry stopped using shapers is because mills were more suited to mass production methods and in most industrial situations faster

Edited By Ady1 on 16/09/2016 14:35:39

Ajohnw16/09/2016 14:39:38
3631 forum posts
160 photos
Posted by RICHARD GREEN 2 on 16/09/2016 14:24:41:

iT'S NOW £85.

This is the sort you want.

From memory they may have the box on the wrong way and the vice isn't correct either. T - Slots across and fixed jaw taking the cutting load.. Don't think there is much worry on both scores on small ones but the fixed jaw aspect might matter.

It was one of that sort of size that I saw messed up cutting a dovetail in a replacement lathe cross slide.

John

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Ady116/09/2016 14:44:40
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3460 forum posts
513 photos

If you get it wrong on a big shaper it can take the table right off (so I've heard)

Even the small ones pack quite a punch and really don't tolerate mistakes

Ady116/09/2016 14:51:03
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3460 forum posts
513 photos

I would always want the t-slots going longways in line with the ram so the machine shoves the job and the vice off the end of the table if it takes too big a bite

Michael Gilligan16/09/2016 14:57:07
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12523 forum posts
544 photos
Posted by Martin Connelly on 16/09/2016 13:30:01:

So the question for someone with a shaper is what would be a must have reason for buying one?

.

The two things that most interested me were:

  1. Making small dovetail slides
  2. Cutting Involute gears, by 'generating'

http://neme-s.org/Shaper%20Books/Michael_Moore/shaper%20gear%20cut.pdf

[Both currently on the back-burner, as mentioned above]

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 16/09/2016 15:00:40

RICHARD GREEN 216/09/2016 15:02:10
294 forum posts
171 photos

John,

I've got an Edgwick 20", I'm going to restore it soon.

Richard

edgwick shaper 001.jpg

RICHARD GREEN 216/09/2016 15:16:15
294 forum posts
171 photos

I've also got a 10" stroke "Royal" shaper, needs a few maintenance jobs doing , but is usable .

It has power cross feed, and also power vertical feed to the table.

royal shaper 001.jpg

Michael Gilligan16/09/2016 15:20:14
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12523 forum posts
544 photos

Richard,

You will presumably be making bigger stuff than me and my little Adept surprise

MichaelG.

Ajohnw16/09/2016 15:56:29
3631 forum posts
160 photos

You didn't bring the first one home on a shopping trolley Richard.

From memory mine covers around a 10" square table and has the power cross feed. Rather large for bench mounting. I can't remember the make without digging it out. I bought it from a junk shop a fair old time ago just before I gave up working in the garage. We've been trying to get a builder to replace the roof on it for nearly 2 years. It's much worse since I moved my stuff out.

You need to think in terms of having a sort of powered scraper Michael. Don't ask me about tooling as I have very very little experience with them. As an instructor said " They don't make any use of them these days but I'll tell you something, They are very good at producing flat surface that need very little work on them. Often none at all" He was referring to scraping and bluing flats on a master surface plate. That from an extremely skilled bench fitter as well.

The sort of thing I intended to make on mine were things like V blocks and Keat's angle plates and items like that. Also angle plates and boxes if needed.

John

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RICHARD GREEN 216/09/2016 16:19:27
294 forum posts
171 photos

John,

We brought it home on a trailer....................something like this............

can-stock-photo_csp10825119.jpg

Michael Gilligan16/09/2016 16:20:26
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12523 forum posts
544 photos
Posted by Ajohnw on 16/09/2016 15:56:29:

You need to think in terms of having a sort of powered scraper

.

Assuming that you mean shaper, John

I'm quite happy with the hand powered one, thank you.

MichaelG.

Ajohnw16/09/2016 16:31:38
3631 forum posts
160 photos

No Michael I didn't. It might be worth bearing in mind that those wonderful old scraped machine slides were often made on a similar machine - a planer and the hand scraping in real terms is just frosting.

Probably a contentious point with some but I'll stick to it.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 16/09/2016 16:32:06

loco man16/09/2016 16:33:05
10 forum posts

Although having two milling machines (both, 'warco', Super Major, and WM12) I still find that my little Corbett 7" stroke shaper of much use. When I was serving my apprenticeship in the mid 60's there was a general feeling that to set up in a shaper took five minutes and to machine the job took an hour. The reverse was the case with the milling machine. One area that I feel that the shaper has over the milling machine is the ease of tooling/tool grinding. In some cases a suitable lathe tool goes straIght into the shaper toolholder (aka clapper box?) Much easier to regrind by hand than a slot drill/end mill. My considered feelings are that both milling machines and shapers have their own places/homes in the workshop and I would hate to be with out either.

Ian

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