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Single phase reverse electrical genious required

Reversing Single phase switch attatched to motor

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Martin Newbold27/06/2016 15:41:14
397 forum posts
227 photos

After my debarkle with the 3 phase kit i purchased and being left with a debt of £230.00 and no hope of anything back that works . I have aquired a 1.0h single phase motor. This is briliant and seems to run the lathe much better. The problem I have is that the motor needs reversing to allow it to bolt in . Is there any experts out there who know what the wiring does on this switch and how to reverse the motot please .

Single phase wiring box

Martin Newbold27/06/2016 15:57:56
397 forum posts
227 photos

This is the make of the part for the wiring info i want help with

 

wiring box

Edited By Martin Newbold on 27/06/2016 15:58:29

Michael-w27/06/2016 16:02:21
avatar
2020 forum posts
49 photos

I thought on single phasers you just needed to swap the position of the metal tracks, i take it this box is here to simulate that action automatically. All i know is you need to reverse the polarity of the motor.

Michael W

Les Jones 127/06/2016 16:15:05
1989 forum posts
135 photos

Hi Martin,
You will need to supply more information. Is the switch a three position switch (Forward off reverse) or is it just a two position switch (On / off) ? Can you provide pictures directly looking down into the connection box, One from the opposite side to the switch (To see where the black twin cable that goes through the hole in the top right hand corner goes to. I suspect that it MAY go to the start capacitor) ?. and a picture from the switch side so we can see if the mains cable enters that side of the connection box. I suspect that it MAY enter that side and that it is the cable with the yellow green core connected to the motor case and the brown and blue cores are connected to the second and third connections on the switch counting from the left. Also do you have a multimeter and know how to use it ?

Les.

Martin Newbold27/06/2016 17:01:37
397 forum posts
227 photos

Currently this is wired as follows:

N -> a

R -> Mains.L

S ->Mains N

T (empty)

W -> yellow motor , starter capacitor.

V -> red motor, starter capacitor

b -> (brown into motor unknown)

U-> motor black , (brown to motor unknwn).

I cant see a way of rotating this but there must be a way of changing direction of motor rotation.

Edited By Martin Newbold on 27/06/2016 17:03:12

Martin Newbold27/06/2016 17:09:52
397 forum posts
227 photos
Posted by Michael Walters on 27/06/2016 16:02:21:

I thought on single phasers you just needed to swap the position of the metal tracks, i take it this box is here to simulate that action automatically. All i know is you need to reverse the polarity of the motor.

Michael W

I have given the wiring on it above . Its a switch unit the motor has three wires black yellow red is this like 3ph and you just have to reverse two of the wires to reverse the motor direction. Thanks for your help

Edited By Martin Newbold on 27/06/2016 17:10:24

frank brown27/06/2016 17:19:18
436 forum posts
5 photos

Judging by the number of connections to that "box", the red knob should reverse the motor. Is it stuck or not working in one direction? The normal wiring is that L&N go to the run windings. One end of the start windings goes to the start capacitor. Depending which way the L&N are applied to the free connections of the start components , the motor will change directions.

Can you find which windings are which with a continuity meter?

Frank

Les Jones 127/06/2016 18:04:34
1989 forum posts
135 photos

Hi Martin,
You have not said weather the switch is 2 position or 3 position. You picture is not good enough to read the letters on the switch. There should be 4 wires goung into the motor windings. You have not said if you have a multimeter.

Les.

Martin Newbold27/06/2016 18:16:06
397 forum posts
227 photos

Yes it worked swapped red and yellow now reversed tah very much

Martin Newbold28/06/2016 14:19:39
397 forum posts
227 photos

Help again after swapping W and V and the motor reversed but was at lower speed and did get very HOT HOT HOT. Is ths because i need to move the capacitor witth the yellow wiire. The switch is only two position i think and latches i havent tried it other way round. Will let you know

Here is the motor plate

Kitty LS60PF wiring plate

Martin Newbold28/06/2016 14:32:50
397 forum posts
227 photos

OK switch is single side motion on off . I was wrong with connections there is a blue wire , Black wire, red and yelow wire to motor and two browns i think are temp sensor.

Currently this is wired as follows:

N -> a

R -> Mains.L

S ->Mains N

T (empty)

W -> yellow motor windings, starter capacitor. brown

V -> red motor windings, starter capacitor blue

b -> (brown into motor temp)

U-> motor blue windings , (brown to motor temp)., motor black windings   goes onto lower rail onto U.

 

Can anyone please help in reversing this please?

Martin

Edited By Martin Newbold on 28/06/2016 14:45:24

Martin Newbold28/06/2016 14:49:48
397 forum posts
227 photos
Posted by Les Jones 1 on 27/06/2016 18:04:34:

Hi Martin,
You have not said weather the switch is 2 position or 3 position. You picture is not good enough to read the letters on the switch. There should be 4 wires goung into the motor windings. You have not said if you have a multimeter.

Les.

I think the switch is just on/off toggle and 2 position do you mean letters they are above the box is a Uniston LS bobine 81 03

Martin Connelly28/06/2016 14:52:41
avatar
682 forum posts
71 photos

If this motor has a start capacitor you would expect it to disconnect once the motor is up to speed. If the centrifugal switch that disconnects it only works correctly in one direction then you will have the start windings powered up all the time when running reversed and the motor will overheat. Also some motors have offset brushes and should not be run in reverse. This may be an example of this.

Martin

Martin Newbold28/06/2016 14:53:44
397 forum posts
227 photos
Posted by frank brown on 27/06/2016 17:19:18:

Judging by the number of connections to that "box", the red knob should reverse the motor. Is it stuck or not working in one direction? The normal wiring is that L&N go to the run windings. One end of the start windings goes to the start capacitor. Depending which way the L&N are applied to the free connections of the start components , the motor will change directions.

Can you find which windings are which with a continuity meter?

Frank

Thank for replying Frank um the red nob is two position only by the feel of it. start windings must be yellow and red as cap goes to these on W and V. I swapped the and the motor would not run as fast and got hot red and yellw give 8,1 ohm

 

Thanks

Martin

Edited By Martin Newbold on 28/06/2016 15:05:15

John Rudd28/06/2016 15:01:24
1155 forum posts
55 photos

Martin,

Can I suggest you do the following?

Determine the Main windings wires, these should be connected to the main supply coming in, permanently connected....you can do this by measuring the resistance of the winding, it will be low.

Determine the Start winding, one end will go to the Start cap, the other connected to one side of the Mains wiring. The resistance will be higher than that of the Main winding.

Having determined which winding is which, get the motor to run in a direction whereby it isnt getting hot.

Once it runs in this direction, note which ends of the start winding go where....now swap the connections.

The motor should now run in the opposite way round.

The switch only provides an On-Off function, a double pole isolation switch if you like.... Mains Neutral on one side accompanied by the Live adjacent to it.

On the other side, you should have 1 wire from the Main winding, with one wire from the

start winding both connected to either Live ( or Neutral) .Then the other end of the Main winding and one of the wires

from the capacitor connected to Neutral ( or Live) . The remaining wire from the Start winding should be connected to the remaining wire from the capacitor..

Apologies if this going over old ground, but basics is sometimes better going  back to...

Having re-read Martin C's post, I tend to agree that if there is a centrifugal switch inside, it is not going to like running backwards and perhaps this is why it is getting hot....

 

Edited By John Rudd on 28/06/2016 15:08:44

Martin Newbold28/06/2016 15:20:29
397 forum posts
227 photos

John thanks for your reply it is not wired like this it has nothing connected to L and N unless its internal . The current wirring runs it at full speed no temperature but wrong direction

There is a blue wire , Black wire, red and yelow wire to motor and two browns i think are temp sensor.

Currently this is wired as follows:

N -> a

R -> Mains.L

S ->Mains N

T (empty)

W -> yellow motor windings, starter capacitor. brown

V -> red motor windings, starter capacitor blue

b -> (brown into motor temp)

U-> motor blue windings , (brown to motor temp)., motor black windings goes onto lower rail onto U.

Martin Newbold28/06/2016 15:33:14
397 forum posts
227 photos

Am not sure if there is a centrafugal switch as its all in the main switch and not motor. It stays clicked over when its running then clicks off if there is a temparature high . Sadly missed single phase motors at school so am on catch up

Edited By Martin Newbold on 28/06/2016 15:40:34

Martin Newbold28/06/2016 16:00:41
397 forum posts
227 photos
Posted by John Rudd on 28/06/2016 15:01:24:

Martin,

Can I suggest you do the following?

Determine the Main windings wires, these should be connected to the main supply coming in, permanently connected....you can do this by measuring the resistance of the winding, it will be low.

Determine the Start winding, one end will go to the Start cap, the other connected to one side of the Mains wiring. The resistance will be higher than that of the Main winding.

Having determined which winding is which, get the motor to run in a direction whereby it isnt getting hot.

Once it runs in this direction, note which ends of the start winding go where....now swap the connections.

The motor should now run in the opposite way round.

The switch only provides an On-Off function, a double pole isolation switch if you like.... Mains Neutral on one side accompanied by the Live adjacent to it.

On the other side, you should have 1 wire from the Main winding, with one wire from the

start winding both connected to either Live ( or Neutral) .Then the other end of the Main winding and one of the wires

from the capacitor connected to Neutral ( or Live) . The remaining wire from the Start winding should be connected to the remaining wire from the capacitor..

Apologies if this going over old ground, but basics is sometimes better going back to...

Having re-read Martin C's post, I tend to agree that if there is a centrifugal switch inside, it is not going to like running backwards and perhaps this is why it is getting hot....

 

Edited By John Rudd on 28/06/2016 15:08:44

Thanks for your suggestions John. Strangely none of the test for connections are connected like you said. there is no contunity beween L or N and any of the windings when the switch is swithed off . Two wires to the motor windings have the capcitor accross them . The other windings seem to be joined together ie bue and black , red and yellow have the cap across them is the empty T position anything t do this. there is a wire 'N' to 'a' an odd link wire.


Thanks for your help Martin

Edited By Martin Newbold on 28/06/2016 16:05:38

Martin Newbold28/06/2016 16:16:33
397 forum posts
227 photos

I dont think it has a centafugal switch just an NVR

NJH28/06/2016 16:22:17
avatar
2307 forum posts
139 photos

Martin

Just a sideways thought - why do you need to reverse your motor? I too bought a reversing switch, in a moment of enthusiasm, some years ago. I've not got round to fitting it and , so far, I have found no need to run my lathe in reverse!

Norman

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