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speed control needed

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Ian L221/02/2016 00:21:58
106 forum posts
11 photos

Ok i have a 600w Bosch palm router but its fixed speed, I would like to add something to get variable speed from it, have heard in past that light dimmer switch do job but will it cope with 600W. any other ideas to get variable speed welcome. also soft start would be useful.

Malcolm Parker-Lisberg21/02/2016 02:02:17
22 forum posts
8 photos

The low cost dimmers from Hong Kong can hadle 2KW, cost about £1.18, I have a simple modification which adds a little piggy back board to give feedback. It senses the back EMF generated and uses that to compensate for the speed drop under load.

.R5, R6, R7 D1, D2 and C3 are the components that are added to the module. The module connections are changed and what was the input becomes the output and vise versa.

I will be adding a Youtube video of the process later this week.

triac_w_feedback.jpg

Ian L221/02/2016 08:17:56
106 forum posts
11 photos
Thanks Malcom
If you have some component details & values ect. Did you make your on p.c to mount the components to if you did is the layout something that you could send.
Ian S C21/02/2016 09:12:44
avatar
7468 forum posts
230 photos

By the dots it looks like a Vero Board job.

Ian S C

Michael Gilligan21/02/2016 09:32:45
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19601 forum posts
997 photos
Posted by Malcolm Parker-Lisberg on 21/02/2016 02:02:17:

The low cost dimmers from Hong Kong can hadle 2KW, cost about £1.18, I have a simple modification which adds a little piggy back board to give feedback. It senses the back EMF generated and uses that to compensate for the speed drop under load.

.R5, R6, R7 D1, D2 and C3 are the components that are added to the module. The module connections are changed and what was the input becomes the output and vise versa.

I will be adding a Youtube video of the process later this week.

.

Thanks Malcolm star

That would be a very useful upgrade !!

MichaelG.

John Rudd21/02/2016 09:49:12
1447 forum posts
9 photos

 

 

Posted by Ian S C on 21/02/2016 09:12:44:

By the dots it looks like a Vero Board job.

Ian S C

It could just be a schematic capture program......

In my opinion, Vero board would be inappropriate for a Mains Powered project.....especially not knowing the op' capabilities....

Ian,

I'd recommend you look at this as a kit.....

https://www.esr.co.uk/products/frame_motor-control.htm

It takes all the guess work out of designing/building/modifying, especially if you are a beginner...

Just my 2c worth....

Edited By John Rudd on 21/02/2016 09:53:26

john fletcher 121/02/2016 10:56:32
754 forum posts

Hello Malcolm, what the resistor and capacitor values. I'll look out for your YouTube video. John

Malcolm Parker-Lisberg21/02/2016 12:28:34
22 forum posts
8 photos

Give me chance to do the Youtube video, all will be revealed.

ICircuit was a screen grab, dots are the layout grid.

R5 & R6 100K, R7 15K, C3 10nF to 47nF dependent on motor characteristics. D1 & D2 1N4007. All other components as supplied on the dimmer.

A toner transfer PCB holds the components for the piggy back board with four leads between the boards.

I will post a image here of the PCB layout, see below

The ESR board is no better than the Hong Kong dimmers, as it does not have load compensating feedback.

Your are playing with leathal voltages, so be safe. Best to do test work with one of those Garden mower type ELCB modules that are designed to shut off the power when you mow the power lead.

triac_piggyback_silk.jpg

triac_piggyback.jpg

Steambuff21/02/2016 12:32:36
avatar
522 forum posts
7 photos

<Quote> The low cost dimmers from Hong Kong can handle 2KW, cost about £1.18, I have a simple modification which adds a little piggy back board to give feedback. <Quote>

Can you post a link to the 'Hong Kong' Dimmer that you based your design on?

Dave

Rik Shaw21/02/2016 12:48:42
avatar
1470 forum posts
398 photos

My Alba 1A shaper when manufactured was fitted with a 950 rpm motor. Sometime in its life someone has fitted a replacement that runs faster - 1500rpm if I remember correctly. This means that the shaper runs a mite to fast even with the two speed gear change set on "slow".

I have been told several times on here in the past that slowing this 230v AC single phase motor was not possible yet John Rudd posts on this thread and links to this:

https://www.esr.co.uk/products/frame_motor-control.htm

Is it possible that the model R-10 will do the trick for me and slow my shaper?

Have I finally discovered the holy grail?

 

Rik

Edited By Rik Shaw on 21/02/2016 12:49:02

Les Jones 121/02/2016 12:55:41
2244 forum posts
153 photos

Hi Rik,
This type of controller is only suitable for series (Also called universal.) motors. Your motor is more likely to be an induction motor so what you have been told before still stands.

Les.

Malcolm Parker-Lisberg21/02/2016 13:01:18
22 forum posts
8 photos

John

Forn the module I am using, search for item number 221904245698 on ebay. It says 4KW, but the heat sink is not big enough for that power. The traic is though, so for larger powers you could change the heatsink.

Malcolm

John Rudd21/02/2016 13:11:54
1447 forum posts
9 photos
Posted by Malcolm Parker-Lisberg on 21/02/2016 12:28:34:

The ESR board is no better than the Hong Kong dimmers, as it does not have load compensating feedback.

Maybe so, but I made no claim that it was better.....merely pointing out that for a beginner, it may be more suitable to build rather than modifying an existing design....

Malcolm Parker-Lisberg21/02/2016 13:16:53
22 forum posts
8 photos

Why pay over £10 when you can get the same functionality for £1.18

Malcolm

Rik Shaw21/02/2016 13:53:47
avatar
1470 forum posts
398 photos

Thanks Les - I never believed in the holy grail anyway sad

Ian L221/02/2016 19:44:22
106 forum posts
11 photos

Thanks Malcolm. Controller ordered (in fact ordered 2)smiley.

John Rudd21/02/2016 21:18:46
1447 forum posts
9 photos
Posted by Rik Shaw on 21/02/2016 12:48:42:

I have been told several times on here in the past that slowing this 230v AC single phase motor was not possible yet John Rudd posts on this thread and links to this:

https://www.esr.co.uk/products/frame_motor-control.htm

Is it possible that the model R-10 will do the trick for me and slow my shaper?

Have I finally discovered the holy grail?

Rik

Edited By Rik Shaw on 21/02/2016 12:49:02

The item I linked to was in response to Ian's request for a method of speed control for his router whch I believed to be of the universal motor powered type....

In no way did I indicate that it may be suitable for Rik's use..

oldvelo21/02/2016 21:46:24
280 forum posts
54 photos

Hi

IF this is a Universal Motor I.E Brushes and Commutator the it will run on a AC to DC speed Controller.

Expensive yes and needs to setup to match the motor.

Eric

Rik Shaw21/02/2016 21:48:33
avatar
1470 forum posts
398 photos

John - Not to worry, if confusion has arisen it is due to my lack of knowledge in matters electrical - not your fault at all. Your ongoing advice on here re: electricals is much appreciated by me and others I am sure.

Rik

Michael Cox 110/03/2016 20:11:18
548 forum posts
27 photos
Posted by Malcolm Parker-Lisberg on 21/02/2016 02:02:17:

The low cost dimmers from Hong Kong can hadle 2KW, cost about £1.18, I have a simple modification which adds a little piggy back board to give feedback. It senses the back EMF generated and uses that to compensate for the speed drop under load.

.R5, R6, R7 D1, D2 and C3 are the components that are added to the module. The module connections are changed and what was the input becomes the output and vise versa.

I will be adding a Youtube video of the process later this week.

Hi Malcolm,

Has there been any progress with the video. I keep watching your youtube channel but nothing seems to have been added.

Mike

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