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Member postings for Nigel Graham 2

Here is a list of all the postings Nigel Graham 2 has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Milling machine identification - "Deutsche Waffen Und Munitionsfabriken"
01/08/2021 19:49:52

I've just examined the Denbigh section again, and its text reveals this:

"Long a common practice in many spheres of industry, Denbigh also made batches of un-branded milling and other machines for distribution by third parties. ... some ... millers differed from the regular Denbigh specification with some obviously ... to a customer's particular requirements."

(ack. Tony Griffiths)

None of his illustrations, apparently all from catalogues, show the left-hand drive, single-slotted table though some captions refer to that under photos of machine with clearly, 3-slot tables (as mine has).

Rainbows' rescuee might have been exported legitimately to Germany, before Hitler came to power or at least before any such exports stopped. Although not giving dates, does state the H-series milling-machines were produced from pre-WW2 onwards.

My reasoning:

".... stolen by an englishman circa 1918. "

Too early for Denbigh H-series mills although Denbigh and DWM were both long established by then.

So what does Wikipedia tell us? Firstly that the name-plate was not a Nazi-government armaments organisation but a commercial company heavily involved in supplying the armed services except between 1922 and the later 1930s. It had been founded as a gun-maker, in 1896. ("Waffen" is a military, but not Nazi, word.)

According to that Wikipedia article the German firm was banned from armaments production after WW1 (though still did in small, secretive ways). After a period of take-over and re-naming, it reverted to its original name in 1936, in Third Reich days; though it had become Quandt-owned in 1929.


So when that milling-machine Rainbows found was actually made, and where it has been all these years, is still something of a puzzle, not least because Mr. Griffiths tantalisingly does not tell us when the model was first made - except that the first, the very basic little H1, was created in the 1920s. Nor does he say when Denbigh was established. Maybe you have to buy one of his catalogue facsimiles to find out more closely!

Piecing things together, I suggest this example, which looks capable of being restored to fully serviceable condition, could have been a legitimate export to Germany in the late 1920s or early 1930s before the DWM name was revived. The DWM plate could have been added later.

The name-plate is not of a Third Reich organisation as such, leaving two possibilities if the firm at some stage had bought the machine new and not looted it in WW2 from an occupied land.

DWM may have owned and used the milling-machine all along, later possibly helping arm the regime; or had sold it but left their asset-plate on it, during the company's inter-War upheavals including the munitions ban.


To summarise, this machine could have been bought innocently by former-DVM in the 1920s or early-30s, between the machine's introduction and Quandt eventually reviving the name.

Since the DWM plate/s (I think there is one on both sides) are where Denbigh embossed its trade-mark, but not name, and given the above Denbigh marketing details, it's tempting to wonder if any name or mark lies below it or them. The plates may have been old ones that had languished in a store for that gap of up to about 14 years.


After WW2 what had been DWM became a railway rolling-stock builder under a new name with the same DWM initials. What became eventually left of it, became absorbed into an Austrian firm now making robotics equipment.


While at it, I went and re-measured the table screw on my Denbigh H4. Yes, it is of 6tpi, not 4mm lead, eventually confirmed after inconclusive attempts with a DTI, by measuring longer distances by pencil-mark and a word-processing rule's twelfths-inch scale. (24 turns of the handle, which has no dial, moves the table 4".)

From above, it's possible this odd pitch was to special order - for the printing industry perhaps?

Thread: Greenly Reverser
01/08/2021 17:25:02

I'd already suggested that, Duncan!

Thread: What Did You Do Today 2021
31/07/2021 22:18:07

Oh, I am sorry to read that. I assume you were in the audience!

It can't be easy matching an orchestra to a huge instrument whose player cannot alter the volume of any but the Swell ranks, and (he explained in interview) cannot see the conductor except by a mirror above the console!

The festival also includes some organ recitals I believe. There is one tomorrow morning.

Thread: EV Charging Hacks
31/07/2021 22:03:26

I'm assuming this is for home chargers, not public ones.

I can't help thinking the most secure option is a wired-in cable and connector only outside, with the charger on a simple time-switch, full-charge sensor and manually re-settable NVR; all electrically shielded and inside the house. The trip is to prevent unauthorised swapping of car or cable; and to protect the equipment from open-circuit faults or indeed theft.

No "computers",. no "smart"-phones, "wi-fiddlesticks", fruit-pies, or anything like that!

It is a battery-charger, albeit a high-voltage, high-current one, for goodness' sake!

Thread: Greenly Reverser
31/07/2021 21:47:37

A suggestion if your enquiry draws a blank.

Essentially, design and make a half-nut held on a die-block working in a slot in the reversing-lever, to accomodate the vertical displacement due to the lever's arc. The nut would be operated from the trigger that would otherwise operate the quadrant catch; the thread itself giving the notches on a "quadrant" of infinite radius. (c.f. the toothed rack)

Provided the engagement is sufficiently positive, you should need only the upper half of the nut, otherwise you are looking at a clasp-nut worked by a cam or double-ended lever, similar to that on a lathe.

The thread would probably have to be of square form to remove any ramp-climbing tendency, and the lever preferably double-sided over the screw to support the die-block from both sides.

Have you tried contacting the RH&DR for information?


I believe there was an early 19C standard-gauge design for such a combined control, but which overcame the arc displacement problem by using a barrel-shaped screw. I think it was found too difficult to make economically; but I imagine it would have required either a thread-milling capacity very advanced for its time, or much simpler and much more likely, a centre-lathe fitted with a profile-follower.

I do not know how it handled the question of thread-flanks not radial to the reverser-lever fulcrum / screw-radius centre. A profiled thread perhaps; the half-nut or catch made to swing about its own centre, or the nut "thread" being horizontal pins like a segment of a lantern-gear.

Thread: Death of a scammer
30/07/2021 22:15:48

Have they established how he aquired the money, yet?

Thread: What Did You Do Today 2021
30/07/2021 22:13:58

Another stage in turning the upper part of the venturi for my steam-wagon's chimney, out of cast-iron billet.

... Errr, step back a bit.

I'd set it in the 4-jaw on my Harrison L5 and gently turned a central band to take the fixed steady. Only found I could not move the steady back far enough to engage it as its clamp-plate was jamming on something under the ways.

Step back a bit further.

I'd acquired this much pre-loved lathe complete with a fixed steady for a diffwerent machibne and no clamp-plate. So by dint of some rather awkward setting-up I'd modified it to fit and made a simple clamp out of thick mild-steel flat. So why was it jamming?

Excrescences in the bed casting, so yesterday I filed them down a bit, and put some chamfers on the plate. Then found pushing the steady back enough for the work-piece put the clamp out into the gap. Only, if I put the gap-bl0ock in th eplate would not enter that.

So this afternoon's task was fettling the gap-block and putting bigger chamfers on the clamp. Now it fits!

Right, now I could turn the billet's end diameter and face it! Why do so many model-engineering tasks need so much workshop-engineering?

Finished in time to close up, unearth myself from the oil and graphite, have tea and settle down to...

The First Night Of The Proms!

With a proper audience too, socially-distanced BBC Symphony Orchestra (on an enlarged stage), and in the Royal Albert Hall's 150th year. The presenters told us this season will mark that with a goodly set of programmes for the RAH's magnificent 9999-pipe organ. (You'd think the organ builders, Willis I think, would have managed one extra note somewhere!)

The two main pieces were among my favourites too. Oh I am spoiled. Poulenc's Organ Concerto, and Sibelius' Second Symphony.

.A complete change of tone for tomorrow's Prom, with an evening devoted to the big Broadway musicals.

Thread: Yet another scam
30/07/2021 21:47:52

One persistant gang sends e-posts headed "Costumer Services" [sic] , or (I think from the same scum) headed with a genuine supermarket name such as Morrisons. They seem pretending to be offering some sort of bonus or something.

However the liars leave an obvious clue as well as the preposterous claim - a bizarre sender's address, and the 'View Source' tool it reveals any reply is "bounced" through another strange, temporary address.

Having tagged several of these by name and domain they now fall into the Spam trap, so I can delete them at leisure..

Thread: Milling machine identification - "Deutsche Waffen Und Munitionsfabriken"
30/07/2021 21:27:56

That is a Denbigh H4!

Or a German copy.

Or did Denbigh copy / badge-manufacture some German make?

Look on, under Denbigh.

(I have one, presently under restoring).

There are differences though, but it's quite possible your new acquistion was a later, more developed version than shown on Tony Griffiths' archives and my specimen. His archive photos show an open belt-feed for the table-feed cardan-shaft, and on the right-hand side (operator's right).

On mine:-

- The chip-tray is rectangular as yours is. Toney Griffiths' catalogue photos of other, perhaps older, editions show a rounded tray. Also my chip-tray is not on the machine but the integral top of a massive cast-iron stand that when minus the machine looks wierdly like some Victorian patent "thunderbox".

- The table feed is/was as described above, and with the handle on the right. The wormwheel is still on the screw but the rest is missing. It is possible yours was adapted for "left-hand drive" of course.

- The overhead arm is similar but solid not tube, and the reduced section on mine is eccentric to the bar, perhaps to align the drop-bracket.

- The spindle nose is not cross-slotted (for a collet with driving-dogs), but is a plain MT3 taper.

- Mine too has that curious little protruberance with a blind hole, on the front hoop leg, and of no clear purpose as the spindle is lubricated through those two oil-holes. I have not worked out what that is for.

- Mine lacks a depth-stop, but seems never to have had one, rather than lost it. Nor does it have what looks like a cover over the back of the spindle, but that might something to do with the different feed mechanism.

- Different table. Denbigh did use single-slot tables but mine has 2.

- Mine carries 'Denbigh' embossed on the stands' cast-iron door, but not the machine itself. Instead the body has the trade-mark Staffordshire Knot embossed on both sides, in positions corresponding to the German armaments plate on yours. I wonder what that owner's plate might conceal.

A curious feature on my H4 is its 6tpi feed-screw, and this exercise make me wonder I had simply assumed inch-fractions and not measured it very accurately. All I did was wind the handle a few turns and watch a pencil mark against a rule. 1/6" = 4.2333 mm; so close I am tempted to measure it properly.


Some years ago somebody exhibited a beautifully-restored and very much "breathed-on" Denbigh H4, geared drive and all to his own design, at Sandown. Only... It was not 'Denbigh' on the side but some other name, I vaguely recollect 'Patrick' but could be wrong.

There was a lot of badge-building going on - my "IXL" lathe I subsequently donated to Lynton & Barnstaple Railway's workshops (I wonder if they still have what had been an extremely useful lathe to me?) proved from Mr. Griffiths' scriptures to be an Erhlich, made in Germany. IXL was just a machine-tool seller.

Thread: Useful?
29/07/2021 21:20:36

Even if it worked, as Oven Man doubts it would, it looks to me as if made from mild-steel, and would corrode quite rapidly despite what appears to be passivated zinc plating.

Thread: WNS - Prompt service!
25/07/2021 16:28:17

I've just bought a scroll-bender and bar bending-brake (V-tool type) from WNS, of Rochford, Essex.

The company specialises in power-driven sheet-metal, pipe & bar forming machinery, particularly for ducting and similar manufactury, but has a range of smaller, manual machines. Though judging by the operating manuals I think they are actually made... elsewhere.

Prompt delivery following my telephoned order; my only beef being that the packing was inadequate for the larger, heavier scroll--bender with its several separate parts. Fortunately, with help from WNS' sales lady and a photo she kindly e-posted, I established nothing was damaged or missing. A "spare" hole in one component proved simply associated with that component's use on another rmachine.

This iis not my first purchase from WNS. I have a "jenny" I bought a few years ago, and recently used it for rolling a single corrugation (can you have a corrugation on its own?) round the thin steel casing of my steam-wagon's ash-pan, though I've not mastered how to use it for flanging discs and cylinders.

Thread: Excellent quality imperial fasteners
25/07/2021 16:13:14

Thank you Peter.

Good name for a maker of threaded fastenings!

Anyway that's another on my growing index. The address is acmestainless[dot]co[dot]uk.

Thread: Wall Chart
25/07/2021 15:52:47

I've now a few of these in various forms but I bought two of Tracey Tools' posters (tapping-sizes on the reverse). One hangs in the workshop, using an old trouser-hanger so I can turn it easily. The other floats around the front-room furniture for ready-reference when I'm using TurboCAD.

Oh, and both are complemented by copies of the Zeus book!.

Thread: Myford Gear Spacers
25/07/2021 15:48:20

Good idea. I must admit I'd never considered that.

Felt-tip pen mark on the wheel... Multiple thread?

Thread: Hydrogen
23/07/2021 08:52:06

The new "mining" for lithium proposed in Cornwall (in fact has work started) is not conventional rock-breaking.

It is extraction of lithium ore that has become dissolved naturally in deeply-circulating water, including that flooding old mines.

The brine is pumped out of boreholes, the minerals are extracted and the water returned (presumably down a different hole.)

Thread: Sourcing a Bolt
21/07/2021 23:26:52

Stainless-steel and aluminium-alloy can be a bad combination depending on the individual grades and the environmental conditions.

The alloys for marine use should be ones developed for the role. I have seen an assembly that had spent some time in the sea, in its intended use, whose stainless-steel thread inserts sat all smug and bright in craters filled with white sludge, in the aluminium end-plates.

I can't see it being a problem in something that is drenched in oil; but it certainly can be with any water about.

A non-metallic grease - mineral, silicone or petroleum-jelly - may be better than a copper-based anti-sieze compound.

I used to test experimental assemblies made typically from "ordinary" aluminium-alloy (HE30 - I don't know its modern moniker) held together with A2 or A4 grade stainless fastenings. Despite their designers' touching faith in anodising, the test-pieces' necessary immersion in a tank of fresh water kept sweet with only normal swimming-pool filters and additives soon started things fizzing.

I wonder if this could also be a problem for miniature railways using stainless-steel bolts with aluminium rails. It might not if the joints are always above the ballast and kept clean, but may be if vegetation or soil accumulates around the track.

Thread: Old lathe tools
21/07/2021 23:03:45

The holder with the light-coloured rust, to the right of the sping tool-holder, looks as if for holding small Coventry-type thread-chasers.

The large holder with the screw in a little hump (2nd from left, next to all those centres) is for parting-tools, and appears to have a blade in it.

Thread: E10 Petrol
21/07/2021 22:54:13

The compatibility-finder and other information on E10 fuel is on the site.

Thread: The beginnings of Mobile Telephony
21/07/2021 22:44:01

My employer had a security notice on its reception desk and that too, called the instruments correctly, portable telephones.

The wrong word probably comes from some big-name advertising company, and relied on enough people having not been taught to understand ordinary words in their own language!

I use "portable" and once puzzled someone enough for him to ask, "Don't you mean 'mobile' " ?

"No. Mine isn't mobile" , I replied. "It has neither motor nor wheels."

Thread: Vehicle reversing sensors
20/07/2021 15:21:01

Roy -

A very useful tip, a soft ball on string. I have seen that tip elsewhere a long time ago though if I recall correctly that motorist drove forwards into his garage.

Dave -

I would expect an ultrasonic transducer to be reciprocal as you suggest, i.e. capable of both transmitting and receiving. They can be calibrated effectively by making three of them ping at each other in turn, and apply the transmitting and receiving electrical signal levels, and the transducers' electrical characteristics, to complicated simultaneous equations. (It was easy for me. The sums lived in a computer programme written by them as know such things.) The method, "reciprocity calibrating", is roughly the sonar equivalent of making three surface-plates from each other without recourse to a reference-plate.

However, even if using a pair at their same resonant frequency, you may need know their receive and transmit sensitivities with their associated amplifier gains, in both modes, for the readings they give to make sense. It may be possible to calculate the results from purely relative signal levels, but you'd still need an optical or thermocouple pyrometer to calibrate the acoustic system, especially as it might not be linear with temperature.

The sound pressure-level emitted from a small transducer is fairly low and falls by inverse-square distance law plus absorption that rises with frequency; so although it is valuable for the sort of contact transmission and reception Pgk describes, in medicine and NDT of metal components, I would not to like to guess its likely efficiency though a turbulent gas cloud.

The sound might travel easily along a fire-tube well though. A metal tubes can be an effective acoustic wave-guide provided you can put enough of the total emitted energy into the tube's entrance. (Think of the speaking-tubes on old ships.) A single-piece sensor may be nearly omnidirectional so much of the radiated sound would miss the tube. If it is directional though, both transducers would need careful aiming for beam and tube concentricity. You could test for this by putting one sensor on a rotary table at one end of the milling-machine table, and the other on a fixed mount at the other: somewhat similar rigs are used in acoustics laboratories.

Also, although the electronics is safely away from the fire, the sensors would not be very happy too close to a high temperature heat source, whether facing through an open firebox door or in the smokebox.

Testing with a blowlamp flame would be interesting. I've sneaking suspicion the flame boundary would reflect and scatter much of the applied pulse back, due to the sharp density difference from the surrounding air. (Incidentally, whales call over long distances not only because they shout loudly and at high power, but also thanks to a natural wave-guide formed by the sea surface and a density boundary at some depth below the animals.)

All food for thought anyway... (No, not the whales.)

Pgk Pgk -

You could well be right about bats using doppler effects; and that combined with interference modulation might be what distinguishes a flying insect from a fluttering leaf.

I've tried to guess what certain enviroments may "sound" like. One study I read was of a pipstrelle colony in Holland, using a canal as guidance between their roost and their forest hunting-land. Although these bats hunt at dusk so probably helped by sight, when flying along the line of a calm waterway the sound impinging on the water at an angle ahead of the bat might be reflected ahead so lost (the canal would appear "black", or "dark"; bank vegetation such as rushes would probably give low-level, diffuse narrow-band noise; the hard ground each side give much more definite echoes.

Regarding your coming up behind tractors, I can say most I have followed have let traffic pass when possible.

The most irritating behaviour I find with cyclists is to play rabbits by trying to cycel as fast as they can, so are very hard to overtake safely, instead of pulling in to some refuge like a field gateway. Worst though was a big bunch, evidently a cycle-club, I once encountered on a rural road. Despite a half-mile of empty road ahead I could not pass, because they insisted on riding as a thrr-or four- abreast bunch taking the middle half of the road, even across the markings at a T-junction with a larger road where fortunately they and I were taking opposite directions.

I have no qualms about towed caravans as most I have seen, as a resident of a tourist-magnet county, are towed competently and at sensible speeds (I accept they have their own speed-limits). Some years ago the DoT studied traffic behaviour and found the largest number of slow vehicles causing long queues are not caravans but HGVs. There are far more of them, all year round and on all manner of roads.

The worst for discourtesy are a large proportion of drivers of horseboxes, both fixed-wheelbase and towed. I appreciate they have to be careful with a large, very heavy, unpredictably nervous animal forced to stand for a long time in a jolting wagon; (I feel sorry for the 'oss); but too many of the drivers seem to delight in ambling along at 40mph on all ordinary roads, and not pulling in where and when safe to let everyone else pass.

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