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Member postings for Nigel Graham 2

Here is a list of all the postings Nigel Graham 2 has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: What Did You Do Today 2021
12/04/2021 18:46:58

You could have a point there - the files locked for security - but I have noticed the same thing on some documents and spread-sheets related to my company pension, I sent from my work to home. In that case the system had turned them to docx and xlsx types, and without warning me.

I had similar problems when on my club committee, in trying to collate assorted papers sent in various locked forms. I don't think the locking was deliberate but might have been by default settings.

Printing the documents as-received, either all or by selected pages, was never the problem. It was editing them to prepare them for printing in a cohesive manner, that failed.

OCR is a thought. I have used it, and I did have a good OCR programme embedded in a comprehensive photo-faffing application. .Not sure if I still have it, but it might be too old to run in WIN 7.


I have now printed the sheet-metal forming manual, from LibreOffice. Its operation in that regard is rather like Adobe, with a page-list down the left-hand side and the active page in the main window, but easier to use. That was as well because removing several pages meant the page-count no longer matched the document's own page-numbers. Still, we got there without wasting too many sheets by printing the wrong second sides on them.

The quality's not brilliant but I have ordered some new cartridges. The main thing is that it is all legible, forming a booklet I can use along with the machine's own user-manual.

Thread: Band saw blades
12/04/2021 11:34:57

Can you machine take blades a bit longer? If so, might any of those offered by Screwfix or Toolstation suit? The latter's range is the more limited, though fit my 'Alpine'-badged machine.

Thread: What Did You Do Today 2021
12/04/2021 11:16:32

Grindstone Cowboy -

Thank you. I will look out for that.

I've now traced the downloads - their folder was well hidden but I have made a short-cut to it.

MS used to call their filing-system "directories" and "trees" - on this computer the trees are more brambles than poplars or beeches - all straggly and tangled! Not my doing. That's how it came.

It's not viewing PDF files that is difficult although only Adobe Acrobat will open them.

My problem is that I want to convert and edit them to print only the information I need, in documents for using in the workshop.

(Docx and xlsx files have given me similar problems, by being locked images.)


FrancesIoM -

Quite a while back you advised I work round the locked-file problem by installing LibreOffice. Well, I have now installed it at last!

Unfortunately it confirmed only that a pdf document is an image, and saves it as still an image (.odg).

It allows editing to a point, and it does default to A4 Portrait mode.

So I could delete 10 pages of the manual's apprentice-training pre-amble, maths not applicable to the subject.... Oh, and one clearly blank by not bearing the rubric "This page is intentionally blank"!

I tried the odg and raw pdf versions in Libre's own document processor, but they stay as pictures - no way to revert them to editable text.

So how did I process several pages from TurboCAD's 'Help' Manual in Adobe-PDF, into a printable MS-Excel index? Might the file have pre-dated MS and Adobe changing the .pdf format?

Anyway I now have a LibreOffice version of the training-manual, trimmed as necessary; looking potentially easier to print than from Adobe.


Next, to buy some printer-ink, annoyed by HP enforcing my buying only their own ink (though not necessarily from HP).

Thread: (bicycle) thread identification?
12/04/2021 00:32:30

I have beside me one of my Tracy Tools charts. (The other is hanging up in the workshop.)

Looking at some of the odder-looking metric pitches listed above, it seems they might not be the "specials" they seem. It's possible some exist to suit particular trades.


The racing-car engine could have M11 threads if the rest of its fastenings are metric.

By comparison, the pitch of the close-to-11mm, 7/16 X 14 tpi BSW is 1.81mm. (BSF is 0.71mm pitch).

There are four ISO-Metric M11s: 1.5mm pitch Coarse, and 0.75, 1.00 and 1.25mm, Fines.


Howard's 4mm pitch finds itself in the standard ranges as M36 and M39 Coarse, and M52 fine - all still ISO-Metric - but obviously there is no reason we can't use non-standard pitches for special applications to our own designs.


A risk with mixing standards that sort of fit together is that of distorting the threads unduly by unfairly concentrated loads, so best avoided in anything critical, or where there may be a risk of the nuts swapping around with each other.

Bolting garden-gates together, or something equally unlikely to fall apart, is a different matter, and though I'm sure we do all try to be consistent, as Chas points out, we would not really expect the El Cheapo building-site fastenings being any better than they should be. Nevertheless, if my workshop's travelling-hoist collapsed I would blame my design, workmanship or over-loading, not its fastenings, all ISO-Metric Coarse, even though they are all just ordinary nuts and bolts from the builders' merchants.

Often, the bigger threat to the joint's safety is not the nut on the bolt but the nut putting the nut on - by carelessness, thoughtlessness, tiredness, pressure to finish the work, etc. One of my old text-books, written before torque-wrenches, states that spanner lengths had become developed with respect to the torque exerted by them by the average fitter. So joints would be designed for the strengths necessary for their own duties, including the bolt diameters; but the spanners were sized to minimise the risk of the fitter breaking the bolts in normal use. Perhaps it was taken that he had sufficient skill to judge appropriate tightness and insufficient strength to snap the screw!

[I have once had to tighten a screw and nut until the former sheared! The M5 cap-screw and 'Nyloc' nut, both in stainless-steel, were in two rings holding together a two-part annular rubber housing, and one of the inner-ring pairs galled while still loose. As it was down inside a cylindrical cavity, inaccessible to any other tools, shearing the screw was the only option.]

Thread: What Did You Do Today 2021
11/04/2021 23:36:12

What Did I Do Today?

I became right frustrated, that's what!

Still too damaged and full of pain-killers after my bad fall a few days ago, to risk anything in the workshop - in fact I was very drowsy a lot of the time today. However I managed very carefully to retrieve the stem-lorry bunkers from the lawn where they'd standing since then, and put them indoors out of the weather.

Then set off to print the on-line, generic instructions for using a manual crimping and swaging jenny. I bought one a couple of years or so ago from WNS. I had struggled to find more detailed help than its own manual (which assumes you know the basics).

Eventually I tracked down a pdf booklet from some training establishment or other (its web-name ends in .ie, but I don't know what or where that is). It is a very clear guide to sufficient basics to get me started confident I won't waste too much metal or worse, harm the "Rotary Machine" itself. Or me. I don't need all 41 pages, which includes some basic maths rather irrelevant here, and which I can find in other books. I was prepared for the ticklish task of double-sided printing nearly 20 sheets without mixing them up.


Hewlett-Packard printers refuse to accept "counterfeit" (refilled) cartridges. Even says it's fraud but I am not sure if's means me or the supplier.

Found I cannot print the thing correctly anyway, testing it with the ink dregs. I downloaded it via Firefox then had the Devil's own job finding where my PC saves down-loads. It offers no choice.

Next, I discovered Firefox' pdf options are desperately limited.

I have not yet tried to install a pdf-image to 'Word' converter as others here have suggested I try. Otherwise I will have to print it as a straight pdf image.

Yet only the other day I successfully condensed and printed for workshop use (though in blue as I'd run of black ink) a down-load from a link on here, on servicing band-saws. And a few years ago I edited by Word and Excel from the pdf original, and printed, a proper alphabetical index to TuboCAD's on-line "manual".


So my first action is to buy a genuine HP cartridge.... It's like buying a car that will run on petrol, but only Shell or Total petrol.

Then I can print the manual and, ,helped by its own handbook, start to learn properly how to use the WNS jenny!

Number Eight in TEE Publishing's " Workshop Practice " series is R.E. Wakeford's Sheet Metal Work, and I have a copy, but though comprehensive it does not cover using forming machines. Curiously, this aspect of metal-working seems rather neglected in model-engineering literature generally.


So I am not an 'appy bunny. Computer and internets and things are supposed to help us, not hinder us.

Thread: My version of Potty Mill engine
11/04/2021 21:39:07

That's an elegant machine!

Thread: Can any of you guess what this is from?
11/04/2021 21:34:50

No idea, but it looks "white goods" enough to me to suggest specialist aspects of the printing or textiles trades.

Or an electrical coil-winder? The clue being the shaft just visible in the gloomy depths, looking like a lead-screw to ensure correct wrapping of the wire. If so there ought be a rapid-reversing mechanism on that screw; and something for holding the core on a mandrel or between centres, and both functions adjustable.

Is its stand original? It seems a different colour though that might be shadows, but looks of much older style, as if originally for a lathe. Could be cast aluminium rather than iron. Or a welded fabrication.

The machine's general styling and paint-work to me suggests 1950s-60s, maybe 70s. I think that era partly because 1930s-50s machines not being machine-tools as we'd ordinarily think, were often though not exclusively finished in black, possibly crackle, and chrome; and the casings on earlier ones were sometimes in distinctive art deco style to match the very latest in office and clean-goods fashions.

No maker's name or trade-mark anywhere on it?


Don't tell us... your next question will be for advice on getting it, the press and engraver up those stairs and into the spare bedroom without the Domestic Authorities catching you in mid-"flight" ......

Thread: Club Constitution
11/04/2021 09:42:15

Grindstone -

Yes, that would be one of the things the grants people have in mind. The fraud in the CASC case is somewhat different - the supposed club not being active, but little more than watching the football on the pub telly.

It's also safeguarding the bona-fide members' interests.

Thread: (bicycle) thread identification?
11/04/2021 09:31:54

I wonder why the cycle trade stayed with 60º threads when (presumably) the Whitworth-form, 26tpi Brass thread was so common?

I have worked on Royal Navy equipment that would have odd mixtures of UNF and BA, advised of by labels, but leaving the technician to recognise which. It was easier on the larger fastenings because the UN-series had indicator rings stamped in them. That was a NATO effect. Other items though had some metric fastenings!


When I started my steam-wagon project, in what became a hopelessly over-ambitious 6" scale, I planned for UNF for 1/4" and above, and BA for anything smaller. (Plus ME series where applicable.) That was based on ready availability, including my comprehensive A/F -sized socket and spanner sets from servicing my cars; but also the neat appearance of the bolt heads.

Having started again in 4" - scale the thing so far as accumulated a bit of a mixture, which is not good practice, but I am slowly correcting that. The hexagon for 1/4" BSF, the predominant size for the chassis fastenings and closer to prototype, is slightly larger than the UNF equivalent, needing a BSF rather than UN (AF-sized) spanner, but aesthetically not noticeably so. .

10/04/2021 19:01:12

I was wryly amused by those revelations of so-called "professional " mechanics using fastenings from one series on near-fits from others; but glad I don't use their garages.

If I pay to have my vehicle serviced professionally, I damn' well do not to be later driving up the M6 at 70mph in a ton of steel held together with any rough old nuts that vaguely wobbled their ways along the studs!

Mis-matched threads are not mating by flank area, but by very thin lines - what other short-cuts has the "professional " taken?.

Bad practice does not become good by being common.


Come on, we're not those can't-be-bothered-mechanics. We like to think of ourselves as model-engineers who do our best to get it right.

A Cycle Thread is NOT Whitworth!

Thread: MS 'Edge' - Points and Pitfalls?
10/04/2021 18:38:17

Bazyle -

It does seem to be particular sites that elicit the warnings about IE, but I have not established any pattern to it. I had though discovered that some of the web-sites I have listed in my Engineering folders no longer work, so might they have moved to a format no longer recognised by IE?

I don't need worry about the business applications you list, like Team and Skype, but IE is my e-mail programme as well as web-browser. Though I am using Firefox more now as the browser, I can't see any alternative e-mail service. The pyrotechnic vulpine offers none.


V8Eng -

Sorry if I offended you, but I was not criticising your choice. I'm simply asking for advice.

I know Edge was written for WIN10 but works with WINs 7 and 8. I wish to know how it compares to IE, both favourably and unfavourably; and what traps to avoid ( if possible).


The upshot so far is that is without Internet Explorer, I may have a better browser in Firefox, but as far as I can see, would have no e-mail service.

I've just discovered one facet of FF (it's open as well as the IE I am using here). Clearing my browsing history leaves half a dozen links I have not searched for. These are Amazon, You-tube, Reddit, BBC News, E-bay and Facebook. FF does not know I do not use them, but probably assumes I do. (I have a radio for the News.)

Google is still hidden behind its "cookies" -wall. Powerful things, barricades of biscuits......

Thread: Club Constitution
10/04/2021 17:46:28

As far as I know there are no formal laws in the UK controlling how a purely private club receiving no financial help from taxes or other external revenue, may be wound up.

However it is normal for a club to state that on dissolution any remaining assets shall be applied to the hobby, for example by donations to neighbouring clubs, or to charity.

The principle is that no members may gain financially. If the dying club sells its equipment to individuals, the cash raised should still be accounted for, and after settling outstanding invoices & debts, applied to or towards the club's interest generally.

I have never heard of an "asset lock" and it may something invented by the Covid legislation. Otherwise, a society should have a Dissolution rule, most do, and it is generally pretty much as Perko describes.

Brian -

I would suggest that your society adopts a Dissolution Clause similar to Perko's example; but establish exactly what "Asset Lock" means. What he quotes is near enough verbatim as in clubs to which I belong, but all those preface that with a club lifetime rule to prevent private gains while it exists.

I suggest you propose something like this, which I copied from the Wessex Cave Club, but it's pretty well standard. Replace the xxxx part (hobby-specific) with, e.g., " model- and associated amateur engineering " :

5.3.No part of the Club's funds shall at any time be distributed by gift, division or bonus in money, to or between any of its members.

5.4.On dissolution, surplus funds shall be applied in or towards the advancement of xxxxxx, or any of them.

5.5.No person or Committee shall have the authority to pledge any future income of the Club unless it has been authorised by a general meeting of the Club

How you do it depends how your Club operates, but as matter of principle such a rule is normally a General Meeting matter, and all members need be appraised of the proposal in the due notice period given by your club rules. A physical General Meeting is not presently possible, and you may need consider members who are not on the Internet let alone use Zoom. So, if pressed for time you might circulate everyone with the Proposal (signed, the Committee) and a postal ballot form - Yes, No, Abstain.


Regarding charities, I am very dubious about that route. On or two of my clubs are PLCs, having to file annual Returns to Companies House. I do not know what if any advantage there is in being a charity - commonality of practice is not recommendation, and free lunches do not exist. Don't think of the present, but of future, hazards.

The following illustrates that general point about unintended consequences, although the specific example is not likely to cover model-engineering societies.

My other caving-club had been enticed by promised tax advantages into becoming an HMRC-registered "Community Assisted Sports Club". This mainly meant membership open to all having that particular interest - as ours already was. HMRC waited a year, then pounced. It gave every CASC a narrow escape-period after which it CASC status would be irreversible and enforce internal record-keeping designed to prevent fraud, but impracticable and intrusive at the level required. With that, and no guarantee of no further regulation, a General Meeting voted our escape.


Thread: MS 'Edge' - Points and Pitfalls?
09/04/2021 20:36:07

After posting my question I looked on MS' own web-site to see what it might tell me. I knew it would only talk it up, but I used the very limited Contact box (80 chrs) to say I'd like to ask a few questions.

Interestingly the site admits that Edge was intended to run only in W10, but due to the popularity (its word!) of 7 have matched it to that, and 8, as well. To me, that is MS admitting it has nothing new to offer, has run out of ideas, that each new OS is the same programme behind new waffle and complexity. Apart from trying to keep ahead of the hackers that MS's almost-monopoly have encouraged, one may ask just what Microsoft's approach really is, and how many of its developments and "up-grades" are genuinely necessary.

The MS site also states that Edge runs on basically the same software as Google Chrome... so is Edge merely Chrome with its own name?.

So essentially, avoid Edge if given the choice. I have not yet discovered how you use Firefox for e-messages. Or is the web-site search tool a totally different thing from the e-post service? I've not seen how and where these two functions separate.


V8Eng - well, yes. If you buy WIN10, Edge is wrapped up in it.

Clive - WIN 10 may be the "way to go" but that is what MS intends, and to whose benefit? I did install W10 when it was offered free, a year or so after buying this PC with W7, and it was so bad I reverted the system to 7.


Presently, IE asks if I want it as the default browser, and I answer no. I use Firefox for that.

IE though is both my e-post system and access to web-sites on which I have registered, including this one; and I can't see how, or if, Firefox gives me the same dual service.

Basically then, I leave IE switched off.... but how do I receive and send messages?

09/04/2021 17:51:10

I receive assorted pop-up warnings from Mr. Gates' lot alleging that Internet Explorer is "out of date".

They've started trying to persuade me to install µS 'Edge' - I am not sure if it's a full www-browser or just the e-post service.

Points to watch for, please, be they Good, Indifferent, Bad or Downright Awful.

E.g. ease of use, compatibility with existing OS (MS WIN 7 Pro) & web-sites etc., user's control (blocking ads, " news" and other clutter, limiting eavesdropping), etc.

Thread: (bicycle) thread identification?
09/04/2021 17:37:42

B.S. Cycle Threads:

60º included angle. Not Whitworth (55º  ) .

3/8" BSCy - 26TPI - Tapping Drill 8.5mm

Source: Newnes' Complete Engineers' Data Sheets.

Taps and dies are available from, e.g. Tracy Tools.


Edited By Nigel Graham 2 on 09/04/2021 17:38:08

Thread: Replacing a Canon printer with a Brother Laser?
09/04/2021 17:27:40

A point to question in choosing a 3-in-1 printer.

Verify the claimed paper size!

An HP Deskjet 1510 handles most of my printing, and both its scanner and printer do handle A4 as claimed.

Its main drawback is that it won't take pattern and refilled cartridges. If I try, it accuses me of fitting counterfeits and although it goes through the motions, it will not put ink on paper.

I purchased an HP OfficeJet 7510, mainly for CAD work but also to copy a lot of A3 originals.

Unfortunately its packaging and advertising proved deceitful. It will print A3 sheets as claimed, but not scan up to that size. Nor is it is just the swept area that is under-size: an A3 sheet overhangs the copier glass in both directions.

I do not know how general such failings are among the main makes and models of printers, but it is evidently one to watch for.


It is also very difficult to know what printed sizes these machines will actually give from a CAD screen image. Though it's probably as much my fault as its, I do not expect genuine full-size or integer-scale drawings on ISO-standard paper, in inches or mm, with correct dimensions; when printing combines Microsoft, Hewlett-Packard and IMSI Design equipment and software that all default to old, USA-only, paper sizes.

Thread: All the gear, no idea
09/04/2021 09:27:49

It's worth using as a price-guide first anyway , rather than generalists like E-bay.


I'm preparing an inventory and have bequeathed all except the models to my two clubs for their benefit - as the models are potentially the most valuable financially I want the family to benefit from them though would expect the clubs to handle their sales.

Not all clubs are stingy, thank you! We have had bereavement sales in my own club, organised by one or two members who liaise with the families and who make it clear they expect sensible offers. I think the models have tended to go for auction or other sale by specialists like Station Road Steam. (Anecdotally, household auctioneers can be out of their depth, listing all models irrespective of nature as "Models and Toys", which might devalue them.) The last few bits and pieces left over - random pieces of metal, small tools, thing that look useful - are usually then bundled up and brought to the club, along with a donations tin.

The hardest items to sell may be the machine-tools by their weight and bulk. If private ads on a forum like this, the magazines or don't bear fruit then you might have no choice but to use one of the workshop-clearance firms who advertise in ME & MEW, and accept being paid little for the plant. Maybe even less by collection distance.

One point about using a society in your own will, is to be prepared for the possibility, however remote, of the club itself no longer existing by your own time. I have given association-addresses as a precaution, and for my other hobbies, as well as model-engineering.

Thread: How on earth do I build this boiler for my Fire King ?
09/04/2021 08:56:31

Yes - your modifications all looks good, but I note Jeff's observation on taking the firebox wall out to the shell, without a foundation-ring. Looking at your second drawing the annulus is finely-tapered and as Jeff says, could silt or scale up quite easily. Thinking about it further, the full-size boilers made without a foundation-ring had a step formed round the firebox shell so the water-space stayed wide for its full depth.

If the fuel is to be spirit or better, gas, you are not going to need to open the smoke-box very often, but if the rings will be prominent, visible features on the finished model, then fit them even though dummies. .Faithful external details, even if not functional in miniature, greatly enhance the complete model.

Thread: How do I remove this small bearing? And the one behind it.
09/04/2021 08:41:14

I take it the housing is blind.

One method is hydraulic: pack the cavity with grease, insert a length of bar that is a close sliding fit the bore, and strike the outer end of the bar with a hammer, or push it down with a press. The cavity does need to be as full of grease as possible..

The problem here though is the risk of damaging the rear bearing.

Thread: Source of 2 inch balls for water pump
09/04/2021 08:34:18

It's very commonly done by using a hard ball (be it turned from Lignum Vitae , a precision stainless-steel, snooker ball or the dog's toy), or a mushroom type valve, on a rubber seating.

I think even Hydraulic Ram Pumps, which use a big, heavy iron ball and close literally with a bang, use that; but here we're looking at something gentler in operation.

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