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Member postings for Phil Whitley

Here is a list of all the postings Phil Whitley has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Milling M/C
12/10/2014 20:47:35

My friend Jim has just got an M1, and it is the first Tom Senior I had seen, I was very impressed with the quality and build is solid! Have a look on, on the machine tool reference guide, he gives all the details. Nothing wron with Elliot either, top quality machines, nothing to choose between really, depends on what you can get!


Thread: What should I budget for getting a workshop wired up?
12/10/2014 15:51:22

Hi Bob Brown,

Re breaking seals on cut out fuses. We were told at tech college that this came under the Electricity supply act 1922/3 which states that if you arrive at an installation and find it in a dangerous condition you may remove the cutout fuse in order to make the installation safe. In a situation where the only alternative to working live is removing the cutout, I remove the cutout in order to make the installation "safe" to work on. I haven't been challenged by any supply authority in 40 years. I have on occasion informed the supply authority and asked them to come and reseal, never had a problem there either. The folks who bleat on about it being illegal, are generally less well trained or less experienced than they should be. Of course if the equipment wasn't sealed, it would be easier to nick the electricity, and harder to prove as there would be no seal to tamper with, and it is "tampering with the seals in order to abstract electricity" that is illegal.


12/10/2014 15:33:26

Hi JoeT,

Your sparks won't have to work live, he would complete the installation , then turn off the ELCB and connect the new switchgear to the dead side of it, then switch back on.


12/10/2014 15:28:45

Hi JoeT, re your picture, that is an early Chiltern or crabtree(?) earth leakage circuit breaker, when you press the yellow test button, it should trip. I only see one earth wire, there should be two, one going to an earth spike, and another going to the consumer unit to provide the installation earth, They work by sensing any current flowing in the earth wire and tripping if this current rises above a pre set level. If you cannot find the second earth wire, there are two possibilities

1) Your entire house is not earthed!!!

2) the installation has been converted to PME by the supply authority, but they have not put the PME sticker on the board.

I am guessing this pic is in a cellar, and the consumer unit is upstairs, can you post up another pic taken from a bit further back and including the meter and also one of the consumer unit. That is a very old fuse cut out, probably mid 1950s, nothing wrong with that, but you need to check your earthing !


12/10/2014 12:36:16

To JoeT (OP),

Best way to go about this is to decide what you want and where you want it, get together a list of materials, price it at screwfix, and add 10% for contingency, then find a local electrician (by recomendation is the best way, ask about) and get a price for the installation on the basis that you will supply the materials to his requirements, and he provides the labour. Some areas have good electrical wholesalers who will sometimes (not often) equall or beat screwfix prices, iif there are , he will know them. If there is already a lighting circuit and a ring socket (two cables) in the building/room/garage you are using for a workshop you can extend these circuits for most uses. the welder needs a 30amp sub main running back to the mains position, and protection for this should be a fuse and an RCD as the current demand will trip most MCBs. Having said that I run my 180A mig on a 13 plug, which is what it came fitted with as new about 30 odd years ago, and I have never had a problem with it. Also please note that under the "revised" part P regulations a part P approved contractor now can check and test the work of others. Also be aware that some part P approved "electricians" have nothing more than a FIVE WEEK training course behind them (no apprenticeship or other electrical experience whatsoever) So beware.

I have jsut checked a recent bill from friday from my local wholesaler(Driffield electrical supplies) who does 50m 2.5mm t/e cable for £28-98 inc vat, the screwfix price is £31-53 inc vat, so it can be done!


12/10/2014 12:03:47

Hi Circlip/Ian.

Sorry, but that is a wind up on someones part, in order for the 5 amp fuse to carry enough current to blow a 60 amp fuse it would have to carry about 90 amps, less if the supply fuse is an HRC (high rupturing capacity) type, even allowing for the most generous fusing factor of 1.5 times the rated current, a 5 amp fuse will carry 7 1/2 amps before it blows. The chandelier cannot have been protected by the 5 amp lighting fuse, which means probably that it is not fused at all, and needs investigating as a matter of priority. Electricity is usually governed by the laws of physics (not always, see lighning) I have investigated electrical faults like this before, and usually found that what appears to be happening, is not actually the cause of the "unexplainable" On one occasion a previous owner had very carefully arranged his wiring so that the stuff used the most often, bypassed the meter, and thus the only protection was the service cut out fuse! very dangerous. You must remember that the Lecky board man is trained to do the job he does, but generally they are not trained as electrical engineers.


11/10/2014 16:31:11
Posted by Swarf, Mostly! on 11/10/2014 11:03:36:

Hi there, all,

It seems nowadays to be commonly thought that the more RCDs and/or RCBOs you throw into an electrical installation, the safer you will be.

You might be safer from electrocution but you could easily die of frustration! My point is that nobody (except the IEE Regs, sorry, BS7671) ever seems to mention discrimination.

It's important that, if you get a fault, the protective device that trips should be the one closest to the fault. The installation design should avoid/minimise nuisance tripping that takes out good circuits along with the faulty one.

If the structure of your wiring 'tree' has several RCDs and/or RCBOs in cascade, all of the same fault current & trip time rating, it's unpredictable which one will trip first. Read the catalogues of the popular suppliers and see how often/rarely there is any mention of those parameters!

While I'm at it, I'll chuck in this one too - if all your domestic installation is 'protected' by a single main RCD and, while you're on holiday, a spider commits hari kiri in some remote junction box, you're going to experience an awful pong when you return home and open the freezer door! IMHO there are some appliances whose character and situation are such that RCD 'protection' is OTT - a sound CPC should be enough!

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

Absolute common sense!!, but you try convincing the IET of it! One thing that makes them all mumble and look the other way is when you tell them that RCD's, MCB's and RCBO's are NOT FAIL SAFE!! If they fail internally (and who knows where they are actually made?) then the only protection remaining is the fuse in the supply equipment, which is occasionally 60, but usually 100amps! That is why we have to calculate the prospective fault current!


Thread: Vintage motorbike
09/10/2014 08:55:02

Hi all, Just read back and see that Michael knew about the queens chickens, and also probably AllJunkSpares and BitsStuckAnywhere.. My Friend Richard had a greeves with the cast frame and leading link forks, but it had a 197 villiers engine (9E?) like this one

Them were't days tha knaws!


09/10/2014 08:31:51

Hi Michael G, It seems to be a confusion in terminology, you call them parraleel twins because the cylinders are side by side, I had always considered that in a parrallel twin the pistons went up and down together, and in a 180 twin, they were opposed, hence the vibration problem was always referred to as a problem "inherent in parralell twins" wheras 180 twins are balanced much better. Now I stand back and reconsider it all, I take your point!


Thread: Colchester Student Mk1Roundhead lathe
08/10/2014 18:40:33

Hi Richard, I will post the pics you wanted here, but if you send me a pm with your email address I can post them straight to you if you need the files. I did three because I didnt know if you were going to photo etch and needed a good likeness, anyway, here they are.


Thread: Vintage motorbike
08/10/2014 18:07:40

Hi all, Sorry Mr Gilligan the Ariel Arrow was a 180 deg twin, not a parralell., but they were as you say a brilliant bit of design, if only they had used twin carbs instead of a single carb single port setup through the engine mount, it would have been a jap killer! I bought a job lot of Arrows in the seventies, there were three arrows and a special racer in a tubular frame, along with a 250cc 4 valve Rudge grass bike which would be worth a fortune now, happy days!


PS, so no one knows where the Queen keeps her chickens then, I am surprised at you all! It is relevant to the original post.

Thread: Colchester Student Mk1Roundhead lathe
08/10/2014 08:57:49

Hi Richard, Will get you a close up pic if the Gamet badge today as I am going to the workshop.


Thread: Vintage motorbike
08/10/2014 08:48:09

Beautiful bike, and not a common one either. The question is, where does the Queen keep her chickens? Micheal Gilligan, You lucky lucky man! a visit to BSA! My dream bike was the rocket three, but I had to make do with an old plunger A10 Gold flash. Our local motorcycle shop was Watkinson Motors in Scarborough, and the owners son had a Rocket 3, he used to barrel through our village playing tunes with the gearbox! The best school trip I got was Parkgate Steelworks in Rotheram, then on to Moore and Wrights in Sheffield!


Thread: CovMac Lathes
07/10/2014 22:06:59

I understand your point about chains, but unless you are using a rust old lump of chain you found in a field, you are pretty safe! You should never lift with anything except the chain, rope or strop designed for that purpose, and it should of course be in good condition. Chains are very strong, and it is doubtfull you would snap a proper lifting chain unless you were attempting a lift like a traction engine. I have two hook chains sets from a blackhawk eurodozer car straigtening jig, the links are about 5/16 diameter steel and the hook is specially shaped to hook onto the chain to form a loop. One of them would lift the entire complete covmac with ease as they are rated at 20 tons! Like wise you hear horror stories about wire rope, but the golden rule is simply to use equipment that is in good condition and rated at well above the weight you are lifting, and if you see the filler twine coming out from between the stands of wire, RUN!


07/10/2014 18:14:06

Or rather top pic is out and bottom one is iin (driving)


07/10/2014 18:11:56

Hi All, Brian, we were right! the clutch s far cleverer than pins or dogs. From what I can see, or rather more what I can feel when I operate it, there is some sort of spring loaded over-centre mechanism which pulls a plate over inside the drum. I an guesing at plate really, it could be a cone, whichever the take up is smooth and very positive, with no perceptable slip that I can create by hand. I all looks very straightforward to strip, as long as the contersunk screws come out of the drum! Mine also has a liberal coating of grease or oily gunk, but the lathe was working fine so i could be some sort of metal (bronze?) friction mateial. I have included two pics below (I hope). I have stopped trying to get the text and pics in order, it seems to make up its own mind where it is gong to put them, apparently regardless of the cursor postion. Pics show clutch in and out.


Thread: Colchester Student Mk1Roundhead lathe
06/10/2014 21:53:16

Hi Richard, Sounds exactly like mine,, I have the sliding levers and also the two speed motor as well, controlled by a rotary switch just under the drip tray.. Mine is a late 1961/early1962 model, straight bed. If you get the number from the top surface of the bed at the tailstock end, there is a list of serial numbers on, and you can date it.

As for tooling I would go for the most rigid if you are turning large work or using big cuts, and also lock the carriage if you can, especially when parting off. Smaller work, model making etc, you will be able to get away with using lighter tooling. Remember though if you are using indexable carbide insert type tooling you need the set up as rigid as possible if you are to use the full scope of the carbides ability. For most work you can use HSS and get as good and often better results, carbide is good for roughing castings, aluminium, which tends to ball up and stick to HSS, and also for problem metals like copper. I use HSS most of the time, but I have a good selection of carbide tipped and indexable boring bars, threading tools and the like., If you need any more info just ask, there are many knowlegable people on this forum and we love pictures of lathes, so get your camera out!


Thread: CovMac Lathes
06/10/2014 21:15:16

Hi Chris, It is only since you started this project that I have looked at the clutch mechanism, it appears to push two pins into a series of holes spread around the V belt pulley. Whilst that is what I can see I think there must be a bit more too it than that, I will look tomorrow. Referring to your picture if you remove the pivot bolt from the clutch arm , and loosen the nuts with the sc4rew slots in the bolts, the clutch arm comes off. I will check the exact details tomorrow. I removed mine because it sticks out quite a lot and I didnt want to break it. It may be a malleable casting, it may not, just not worth the risk. Good progress and good news that the headstock is loose, well done that man!


Thread: Colchester Student Mk1Roundhead lathe
03/10/2014 21:02:49

Hi Richard, Yes, thats the one.. The Mk1 has two slots on the apron for sliding and surfacing, the "mk1 1/2" uses the mk2 apron with the in out lever and the knurled knob to switch between sliding and surfacing. Is this what you mean or is yours different at the feed /SC box end?


02/10/2014 12:10:12

Hi Richard, do you have a manual, because I can send you a pdf if you haven't. I would like to do this on mine too. I gather that you remove the apron first, but I was just going to "go for it"


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