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Member postings for Brian Wood

Here is a list of all the postings Brian Wood has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: RCD socket
02/05/2020 18:15:33

Insect activity or moisture penetration perhaps

Brian

Thread: Myford ML4 Restoration: Headstock bearings and spindle removal
02/05/2020 10:47:16

Hello again Luke,

I have just been reading back over the recent correspondence and noted your report on the cracked 25 tooth gear.

I feel sure I am correct; Myford made the smaller gear sizes in steel, which would include 25T. The other sizes upwards were made in cast iron

My question is how on earth did a 25T gear in ductile material get cracked? I can only think that there was at some stage in it's life one almighty lock up, maybe from running the tool into the chuck or something on those lines for there to have been sufficient strain induced in the gear to crack it. If that happened on this lathe I would look carefully at the other elements downstream of the change gears for evidence of damage.

It may of course have been bought in along with other things, in which case you will see nothing untoward.

I recently rebuilt the screwcutting gearbox on a 1902 US made Hendey lathe fitted with an original Norton box. That had been very badly beaten up in a hard life and I had to make a completely new set of gears for it but the point of the story in that while the cast iron [Yes--cast iron!] gears were mostly devoid of teeth, the smaller steel ones still had teeth, all bent and distorted. , some worn down to stumps, but NONE were cracked.

A cast gear would have fractured---I remain puzzled

Clamp it together when you braze it to prevent it opening like a flower and anneal it well afterwards to relieve strain

Kind regards Brian

02/05/2020 09:55:33

Hello Howard and Luke,

I was quite taken up with Howard's suggestion for re-machining the backplate register on Luke's chucks. I do however see a snag which would ruin the whole operation.

It depends crucially on the quality of grip of, say, the three jaw chuck on the machined spigot held in the four jaw chuck. Luke has already said his Crown 3J chuck has a lot of wear and uncertainty of grip in the jaws which means it will grip the spigot well enough but would that be without a wobble at the register position?

I think instead there is little alternative to removing the backplate from the chuck to be modified so that the register position can be set correctly in both planes.

When I carried out the modification on Dad's lathe I had the advantage of owning a second 4 jaw chuck, big enough to grip backplates on their own so that location in the two directions could be assured.

Good news for Luke

You will find that the location tongue of a fixed steady for the ML7 will also fit the central channel between the ways on your ML4. The gap width is 35 mm. Whether the position across the bed of both lathe designs is sufficiently close as to be insignificant I don't know.

I made a large 4 arm steady for the ML4 to machine the bearing pockets in the quill tube on my Dore Westbury milling machine and have used that on my ML7R many times without being aware of cross bed misalignment

Kind regards Brian

01/05/2020 19:20:14

Hello Luke,

Just briefly if I may.

The spindle nose configuration of the ML7 has the same thread as your lathe, but the plain chuck register is 1.25 inches in diameter. The modification is to make a close fitting sleeve to bond to the 1.125 inch diameter register you have and then machine the o/d using the lathe itself to finish the OD to ML7 size

You would of course need to open the register diameter on your current range of chucks.

Kind regards Brian

Edited By Brian Wood on 01/05/2020 19:21:01

01/05/2020 16:49:52

Hello Howard,

Thank you for the compliment, I hope I can live up to it.

Luke said at the start of this thread that the mandrel nose thread was 3.125 inch x 12 tpi, as well as giving the other parameters that were common to late issue ML4 lathes it is the same model that my Dad bought new in 1945 and I was allowed to use as a 7 year old.

That nose thread would be ripe to accept a simple collar modification to allow ML7 spindle fitting hardware to be used, I don't know what other chucks he has inherited.

Thus far we know nothing about the state of the Morse tapers. I am hopeful that they have survived unscathed after all these years. We also know very little about the state of the bed. It is very likely to be worn at the chuck end, but that of course doesn't mean the lathe cannot be used---it just needs due allowances for age

Like you, I thought this could be restored to a fair working machine, Luke seems to be capable and with the family history of ownership from Grandfather---Father---Son it seems only fitting to get it fully operational again.

Regards Brian.

 

Edited By Brian Wood on 01/05/2020 16:50:27

01/05/2020 12:06:30

Hello again Luke,

Part 2 got lost so I will have to do it again from memory, most annoying.

This stage describes the steps to rebuild the headstock

Draw the bearing shells into the housings with a long bolt and wide flat washers either end to pull them in square. Don't draw the front bearing into the thrust bearing pocket. Make sure you have the oil holes on the correct side and that the split aligns with the gap in the housing

Assemble the spindle and the thrust washer on their own into the bearings shells to see how the spindle feels in position when the bearings are slack. Oil the bearings and tighten first the rear, then the front and finally the thrust bearing [ Make sure there is a soft washer under the grub screw to avoid bruising the thread] Test the feel again, there should be detectable drag by hand on the spindle nose thread.

If this feels OK pull the spindle out again and rebuild with the cone pulley and an intact bull wheel. You might have to increase the dimple depth for both grub screws, the one for bull wheel looked pretty well chewed up. Don't forget to fit the belt!

Refit the 25 T gear. I think it had been fitted much too far on previously, just sufficient for full engagement with the reversing gears below it is correct. The gear will tap on with a soft faced mallet and test it is going on square. Also make sure the two halves of the 2 BA screw hole are aligned. Test with a screw for thread engagement without binding , then run a 2 BA tap in to refresh the thread. Cut somewhat deeper this time, blow out the swarf and fit a grub screw; Finish with thread lock

Now set up the bearings again to just get drag on the spindle and run the lathe for 1/2 hour or so on a slack belt to bed things in. Feel the bearings as this test proceeds, they should not get warm. If all OK then tension the belt and run for a further hour, listening and feeling bearings during this time for signs of distress. Oil the bearings frequently as well.

That will be sufficient I think for a usable machine. It will NOT be up to Dean Smith and Grace tool room standards of course, these machines sold fully equipped for £50 or so in their day

A new thrust bearing if you need it can be bought from either of the following suppliers;

Bearing Boys or Just Bearings. They both have websites

I hope that helps and gives you some reassurance.

Kind regards Brian.

 

 

 

Edited By Brian Wood on 01/05/2020 12:09:40

01/05/2020 10:58:38

Hello Luke,

This might become rather lengthy

Part 1

Do first of all remember this is now an old machine, pushing 80 years old or so, that was built and priced to serve a market worn down by the events of the time with the inevitable shortages of material the makers were able to squeeze from the diversions in support of the war effort at the time. That said, I think it is in remarkable condition really, given what has happened in the intervening years.

I have never seen a bare ML4 headstock without bearing shells before, so I am learning things along with you. The following points may be helpful.

  • The spindle, as judged from your photos looks in good shape externally. The scarring and burrs can all be cleaned up with a fine cut broad file, used just enough to get the high spots and ridges down to the spindle surface.
  • The inside of the bearing shells again appear to be visually sound and probably good enough to be used without resorting to scraping. That is skilled work and needs the right shape of scraper to remove metal where needed. I would avoid doing any work of that nature if you have no such experience.

You have not described the fit of the rear bearing shell in the housing. For it to have rotated, the grub screw holding it must have been slack enough for it to have ridden over the dimple made for the grub screw to secure it. Now that you have it out, is it a sloppy fit in the housing? If not, then well and good.

Otherwise, salvage of the shell is possible by building up the outside with soft solder and dressing that to make a the shell snug fit in the housing.

The thrust bearing is also quite likely to be in sound condition. Wash all the components thoroughly in petrol and dry it off. Inspect the flat washer faces for indentations, a generally polished looking wear mark is quite normal. Reassemble it loose on the spindle and gently spin it, dry, to listen for other that smooth bearing noise. It should not be lumpy and rough. New bearings to that pattern can be bought----see suppliers at the end of this posting

The casting itself looks fine, casting porosity is to be expected and yours is quite normal---nothing to worry about

The 25 tooth gear. If you have a slim, fine cut file [like a magneto file for example] carefully file down the ragged edges that were adjacent to the thrust collar. I think the gear had been pushed on too far before which might explain the rather shallow depth of 2 BA thread locking it. Otherwise, the rest of the teeth look to be a usable condition

Art 2 follows

01/05/2020 10:56:23

Hello Luke,

This might become rather lengthy

Part 1

Do first of all remember this is now an old machine, pushing 80 years old or so, that was built and priced to serve a market worn down by the events of the time with the inevitable shortages of material the makers were able to squeeze from the diversions in support of the war effort at the time. That said, I think it is in remarkable condition really, given what has happened in the intervening years.

I have never seen a bare ML4 headstock without bearing shells before, so I am learning things along with you. The following points may be helpful.

  • The spindle, as judged from your photos looks in good shape externally. The scarring and burrs can all be cleaned up with a fine cut broad file, used just enough to get the high spots and ridges down to the spindle surface.
  • The inside of the bearing shells again appear to be visually sound and probably good enough to be used without resorting to scraping. That is skilled work and needs the right shape of scraper to remove metal where needed. I would avoid doing any work of that nature if you have no such experience.

You have not described the fit of the rear bearing shell in the housing. For it to have rotated, the grub screw holding it must have been slack enough for it to have ridden over the dimple made for the grub screw to secure it. Now that you have it out, is it a sloppy fit in the housing? If not, then well and good.

Otherwise, salvage of the shell is possible by building up the outside with soft solder and dressing that to make a the shell snug fit in the housing.

The thrust bearing is also quite likely to be in sound condition. Wash all the components thoroughly in petrol and dry it off. Inspect the flat washer faces for indentations, a generally polished looking wear mark is quite normal. Reassemble it loose on the spindle and gently spin it, dry, to listen for other that smooth bearing noise. It should not be lumpy and rough. New bearings to that pattern can be bought----see suppliers at the end of this posting

The casting itself looks fine, casting porosity is to be expected and yours is quite normal---nothing to worry about

The 25 tooth gear. If you have a slim, fine cut file [like a magneto file for example] carefully file down the ragged edges that were adjacent to the thrust collar. I think the gear had been pushed on too far before which might explain the rather shallow depth of 2 BA thread locking it. Otherwise, the rest of the teeth look to be a usable condition

Art 2 follows

Thread: 4-jaw chuck jaws....
30/04/2020 09:34:22

Bob,

I have in the past wound a couple of turns of masking tape round the workpiece to soften the bite. Like you, I have all sorts of odd ends of split copper pipe but these tend to get mangled and bent after being pushed over different sizes of job.

I agree with Clive Brown and endorse some light stoning on the jaws, especially the edges.

Regards Brian

Thread: Zinc based alloy?
30/04/2020 09:20:55

You could substitute Aluminium instead

Thread: Myford ML4 Restoration: Headstock bearings and spindle removal
30/04/2020 09:11:27

Hello Luke,

One way is to clamp the drive belt on the spindle, when tensioned, and let the clamp rest against something solid. A second approach is to bridge the chuck jaws with a section of wood having the free end resting against the lathe bed. You might unscrew the chuck with this method

The usual approach with the backgear locked leads to the risk of tooth damage as you have pointed out. I would not advise any approach with the bearing grub screws, for a start I don't really know what function they serve and secondly the bearings may get damaged in the process.

I said earlier and will repeat it now, heat the gear, apply WD 40 in the joint between the gear and spindle and use slim levering tools as an opposed pair in the gap between the end play adjusting collar and the gear itself to push the gear off. There will then be no need to lock the spindle.

I do have a spare bull wheel which you may care to build in when you reassemble the spindle. Send me a PM if you are interested

Kind regards Brian

29/04/2020 11:24:22

Hello again Luke,

You are quite correct, that gear has slipped and in the direction you would expect it to go for spindle creep with respect to the gearing for a prolonged cut.

Your fear it has seized is I think somewhat premature. It WILL lever off with two slim blades opposed to each other. A bit of heat on the gear before you start will help it a lot. When I said I had used the screwed collar as a jack, I meant just that. Lock the spindle and make use of the fine thread the collar is fitted with to push the gear off, or at least open the gap between it and the gear to allow flat bladed screwdrivers into the joint to 'walk' the gear off. Don't be tempted to ease the fit to help it back on later, it needs that degree of interference fit..

Myford sell Tee headed bolts in a range of lengths. They used to sell a rear tool post as well but it wasn't a cheap accessory.

Kind regards Brian.

29/04/2020 10:13:28

Hello Luke,

Welcome to the Forum, I hope collectively we can help you.

I inherited my late father's ML4 which he bought new in 1945 and did a lot of work with it, including much of the machining for my Dore Westbury milling machine, Later I had the opportunity to replace it with a good ML7 which I bought from an old friend I trusted. I therefore grew up with Dad's lathe from about 7 years old. I was sad to see it go, it was still a good working lathe.

The gear on the spindle driving the change wheel gearing is a very tight fit on the spindle and locked by [ I think] a 2 BA screw across the joint to prevent creep. It will pull off or can be carefully levered off. Behind that is a screwed collar to adjust spindle end float; that is secured with a grub screw onto the fine thread. It should have a copper disc preventing thread bruising so look out for it when you dismantle. If absent a suitable size of brass washer will do as a substitute. Thinking back now, I seen to remember using the screwed collar as a jacking tool to push the gear off the spindle..

The pulley cluster is secured to the spindle with a grub screw through the collar into a dimple in the spindle. It should spin freely on the spindle as part of the back gear operation when slow spindle speed is called for.

The 65 tooth bull gear has yet another grub screw to grip the spindle. If I remember correctly, that frequently needs tightening if doing a job with interrupted cutting, the jarring slackens it's grip. These bull wheels are very prone to losing teeth if the back gear cluster is engaged a touch too early. I have a spare if you need it.

With the end gear and thrust collar removed, the spindle can be withdrawn towards the tailstock, having slackened the bearings of course. There are no Woodruff keys to catch or interfere with that, although you may have to wriggle the shaft out. In removing it you will reveal the thrust bearing at the chuck end that is buried inside the bearing housing

I noted the care you took over bearing adjustment to avoid overtightening. When you come to re-assembly it might pay you to make up two inserts for the gap, lapped to fit each, so that you can close the bearing down onto something and make a 'solid' bearing of it. Drill a hole through these so that they are held captive by the bolt.

I don't think you will be able to buy new bearings for this model any more. The grub screws you referred to with regard to these bearing were I think locking features preventing rotation within the bearing housing. They certainly play no part in adjustment.

The degree of bearing wear in the white metals and on the spindle itself are really matters of judgement and to be set for minimum shake consistent with free running; likewise the degree of spindle end float. The bearings should get warm in operation but not above that in say 1 hour's running. They must not get hot. Lubrication is of course important and I found a standard SAE 30 grade oil perfectly satisfactory

I too had trouble with parting off and in the end decided to adopt the coward's way out with a hacksaw, taking precautions below the cutting with a block of timber to prevent damage to the lathe bed. I suspect much of the snatching and vibration arose from any slack in the gib adjustment across the bed for the rather narrow cross slide which would give rise to 'nodding' and other such trouble. One of your pictures shows a paring tool used upside down, that is another dodge with the lathe running in reverse, but getting the tool height on centre that way round can be a problem.

Dad's lathe had the original design of tailstock bed clamp and what a dreadful thing that was to set up. In the 1960's Myford did offer to rebuild owner's tailstocks with a new bed shoe and proper cross piece so that offsets could be made, but it was of course an expensive job and I never had the cash to cover it. Your version is one I have not seen before and looks a good deal better than the one I struggled with.

I think that is enough for the time being; I hope it has been of use to you.

Kind regards Brian

Thread: Myford ML7 Thrust bearing
16/04/2020 17:49:01

Richard,

Take a look at the Bearing Boys website. I'm sure you will find a match for your thrust bearing within their range and better still it will be a postal delivery so you are still maintaining your isolation

Regards

Brian.

Thread: Myford ML7RB backgear cluster
13/04/2020 16:42:37

Not done it yet,

I have read John's article in the Raglan entry in www.lathes.co.uk literature again just now, funny how you mis-remember things. To make the correction, what he did say was that the gearbox was given a good wash out following the bedding in treatment and the gears were re-oiled.

I stand corrected!!

Regards

Brian

Thread: I'm making D reamers on a ML8 please help me get a proper lathe!
24/02/2020 17:55:52

Hello Sam,

One way I might do as you are asking is to power the leadscrew alone, probably better done with a second drive and leave the headstock un-powered. It isn't difficult to isolate the gearing up to the headstock, just take one of the linking gears out when you run things that way.

The new drive could also be readily arranged so that you still retain the option of using the lathe as the makers intended.

Regards

Brian

Thread: Cost of Stamps to Increase
21/02/2020 14:09:59

The receiving record for 2nd class postage is simply not good enough, a lot of mail goes missing. There is no way of proving it of course, but I suspect it is given very low priority, hence the bad service.

If you are sending something that stands a chance of getting to it's destination on time, then 1st class is how it should go. The other alternatives include electronic mail [email] and texting

It is I'm afraid just another cost that increases. The PO have given it their thoughts and added to the cost!

Brian

Thread: Magazine article ME and MEW sought-after
19/02/2020 16:35:07

Howard,

Sorry to correct you, but If you look under Werner's other post joining the forum from Germany, he says in that his lathe is an early S7.

That being the case, the Ken Willson modification for roller bearings on the rear end of the spindle is what he needs, not modifications on a ML7 with white metal bearings.

Regards

Brian

19/02/2020 10:20:17

Hello Werner,

You said your lathe is an early Super 7. If I remember correctly, the Alan Hearshum article is for modifying the ML7 lathe with roller bearings in place of the white metal plain bearings. It is not a conversion you can apply to your lathe.

All is not lost however! Ken Willson published a conversion to taper roller bearings for the rear bearings of the Super 7 headstock in MEW 175 published in April 2011.

I made the change on my own lathe having read the article and it has performed without fault for nearly 9 years now. I fully endorse the upgrade but you do need the use of another lathe to machine recesses in the adjuster rings to be able to contain the greater depth of the bearings since they occupy more space within the housing than the angular contact bearings they will be replacing.

I can send you a copy of Ken's article but only by email. For some reason I can no longer add to my folders or post pictures on the forum so that is my only route to you. Send me your email address if you would like a copy;

My address is wood_y(at)btinterner(dot)com. All in lower case, with no spaces and be sure to include the underscore [ _ ] between the d and the y

Regards

Brian

Thread: Wood store
11/02/2020 15:06:39

The late John Stevenson once confessed on this forum that he had a similar problem with angle grinders; in a clear-out he came across about 9 of those buried behind and under all manner of other stuff.

Regards

Brian

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