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Member postings for Doubletop

Here is a list of all the postings Doubletop has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: The Chocolate Fireguard as designed by Mercedes Benz
16/07/2019 21:22:54

The point I was trying to make. Or at least 41 similar points



Edited By Doubletop on 16/07/2019 21:24:08

Thread: Electricity Supply
14/06/2019 12:10:53

Here we go, and no mention of EV's


14/06/2019 05:52:22

More from Transpower. This time their views on battery storage from a grid owners perspective.


The conclusion being that its better done at the consumer end of the network. Which aligns with suggestion of using your EV as a battery backup and to feed power back to the grid. You EV probably has the biggest battery you own.

What it does to the lifecycle of the battery is another consideration.

13/06/2019 11:21:05
Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 13/06/2019 10:11:08:
Posted by Doubletop on 12/06/2019 21:01:17:
Posted by Alan Bone on 12/06/2019 19:28:52:

I don't see renewable energy as a one-for-one alternative to fossil fuels. Instead I see them as a way of softening the blow. Ideally most people most of the time can carry on. Otherwise, given time, people always adapt to what's available.



Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 13/06/2019 10:13:25


Thats exactly what Transpower said in their document that I quoted

We will see the mainstream commercialisation of distributed solar, electric vehicles and energy management systems. These will start to significantly change the profile of demand and operation of the system with solar and batteries as well as other distributed energy resources enabling load to be partially flattened within a day but also adding additional intermittency. Despite growth in distributed supply, there will also be significant growth in grid energy demand. In the short and medium term we do not expect these batteries and distributed energy resources to be sufficient to flatten the daily or annual load curve, however it has an important potential to shave off peaks and it is critically important that it doesn’t accentuate existing peaks and troughs

12/06/2019 21:01:17
Posted by Alan Bone on 12/06/2019 19:28:52:

Love the leccy cars. I want to go visit a mate in Adelaide, next state over. Battery Cars have range of 250 km / 160 miles, Adelaide is about 2700 km from Perth, 10 charges if it were possible. On the Eyre Highway / Nullarbor fuel stops are about every 300 km with NOTHING in between, run out of power 50 km before next service station, WONDERFUL. My petrol car has a range of 500+ km. I usually get there in 2.5 days with 2 overnight stops, 1100 km per day as I do not hurry.



The Australians already have the solution


But it may take a while and the wife and kids will have to fly..........

On a serious note it is encouraging to see that the we are now seeking formal documents on the subject rather than trotting out 'she'll be right', wind, solar, batteries and smart chargers will sort it...


11/06/2019 03:10:31
Posted by David Bingham on 11/06/2019 02:06:20:

My favourite pub topic. As member of the Institution of Engineering and Technology and retired electricity distribution engineer, you are pretty on the mark. Apart from the total required generation, the 415volt cables in a street full of electric cars coming on line at the end of a working day would be a disaster ! In the best scenario, the fuses at the local substation would blow, given a very high load or worse, under a more modest overload would cause cables to overheat and fault permanently. In my opinion, the drive for "smart meters" is to enable tariff boosts or, even, disconnection for load sheding to control this.

I would be more than enthusiastic to see all electric vehicles but it requires an astronomical investment in the electriicty infrastructure.


I'm with you. A case of "The Emperors Clothes”.

At some point the stakeholders are going to have to wake up and realise that it is time to take this seriously rather than the piecemeal solutions that are being bandied about.

10/06/2019 03:53:35

From Transpower the NZ grid network owner


" We will see the mainstream commercialisation of distributed solar, electric vehicles and energy management systems. These will start to significantly change the profile of demand and operation of the system with solar and batteries as well as other distributed energy resources enabling load to be partially flattened within a day but also adding additional intermittency. Despite growth in distributed supply, there will also be significant growth in grid energy demand. In the short and medium term we do not expect these batteries and distributed energy resources to be sufficient to flatten the daily or annual load curve, however it has an important potential to shave off peaks and it is critically important that it doesn’t accentuate existing peaks and troughs."


"Many of our existing assets will need significant investment in the next couple of decades. The assets of greatest concern are the conductors on some of our key 220 kV lines, many of which are built over urban areas. We need to sequence them carefully to manage our and our contractors’ resources, to avoid volatility in our transmission charges and to ensure sufficient capacity headroom to enable the grid outages required for the work.

Further future opportunities exist. New tools leveraging our data using learning algorithms such as artificial intelligence will increasingly play a role in managing the network as a complement to the distributed energy resources in individual homes and businesses. The increasing storage in the network could eventually create a network with extensive storage in which the grid’s role shifts."



Edited By Doubletop on 10/06/2019 03:54:09

Edited By Doubletop on 10/06/2019 03:55:09

Thread: Model aircraft pilots angry over drone laws
09/06/2019 11:13:53

We are having a similar debate here in NZ following the Christchurch tragedy. The government quickly introduced a ban on automatic weapons and will introduce gun registration. The pro-gun lobby trotted out similar arguments about criminalising law abiding people and suggested criminals wouldn’t bother handing in their weapons or registering them.

Surely the point is that everybody that registers would potentially be off the list of suspects and the authorities will only have to spend their time dealing with the small percentage that don’t comply with the regulations.

Those of us with steam engines join a club and pay subs so we can get our boilers tested and approved for public use. We do it because we have to if we want to be safe and be insured to use them in public. Surely its much the same arguments for model aircraft?


Thread: Electricity Supply
09/06/2019 09:49:58

In NZ the NZTA publish the vehicle registration statistics. In 2018 there was in the order of 200,000 new vehicle registrations. Those vehicles ranged from scooters to articulated trucks and larger.

The power ratings for every vehicle is given, and the average power of all the vehicles was around 100Kw. If the average annual mileage is assumed to be 10,000 miles (or 16000km) at say an average speed of 50km/hr then the average usage is 320hrs/year. Now those vehicles aren't going to be driven at full power so let’s say they are driven at 20% of the max power.

So 20% x 100Kw x 320hrs x 200,000 vehicles = 1,280,000 Megawatt/hrs of generation would be required. That’s a 150Megawatt power station running 24x7

There are 4Million vehicles registered in NZ. If they eventually all became electric then the power generation required would be 20 times that required for the 2018 registrations. That would be a 3,000Megawatt power station. The total generation capacity in NZ is currently 9,237Megawatts.

OK I accept there will be many other factors to be taken into consideration but surely somebody in the industry is doing a detailed analysis of what will be required and coming up with answers? Particularly; if we do need to generate this additional power how do we get it to where it is needed?

09/06/2019 08:48:49

I've been looking for some sort of longer term planning or strategy for NZ. I've not found one and have assumed that with a deregulated electricity industry nobody wants to be the one to put up their hand and acknowledge there could be a problem.

I have found this from the UK though which may be a start >**LINK**

At the back are links to 218 other websites or papers related to the subject.


Thread: The Chocolate Fireguard as designed by Mercedes Benz
20/05/2019 11:15:09

The link V8Eng provided led to this governemet strategy document. It may well be what I've been asking for


It looks like it is worth reading and right at the back 218 endnotes with links to other papers......


Edited By Doubletop on 20/05/2019 11:17:46

20/05/2019 10:57:43
Posted by V8Eng on 20/05/2019 10:11:47:
Posted by duncan webster on 19/05/2019 19:07:39:
Posted by V8Eng on 18/05/2019 00:22:19:

I read recently that EV charge points installed using a Government grant will have to be “smart” in the very near future.

I have just found the article again so add a link.

Charging points


Does that imply that when the wind isn't blowing (no wind generation), or it's dark (no PV) you won't be able to charge your car?


I kind of assumed that it meant something like that as well, maybe not on a dark cold winter evening when power demand is very high either!

I think it means that if your neigbours have got home and plugged in before you you may well have to wait your turn alternatively they will load share and you may not get as much juice at the rate you expected. Broadband style.

Edited By Doubletop on 20/05/2019 11:00:29

17/05/2019 23:21:05

Those of you in the IET may be interested in joining in on the discussion here. (not sure if others can access it)


One of the contributors provided this link


You may find it interesting

09/05/2019 06:03:53

The previous post was made 12sec before mine but I can't modify the Scalextric reference now. However, it does look like they are on to it....

09/05/2019 02:44:45
Posted by duncan webster on 09/05/2019 00:14:43:

PS Before I get a storm of derision, I'm not being totally serious, but it might work for HGVs

Edited By duncan webster on 09/05/2019 00:15:29

At the risk of undermining the serious debate going on here "Scalextric" rails? Stranger things have been the past. Atmospheric railways come to mind.

However, I am more interested in the planning for the immediate future rather than esoteric long-term options. It all seems a bit piecemeal at the moment, maybe Sainsburys can come up with a plan of their own?

08/05/2019 11:02:39
Posted by not done it yet on 08/05/2019 10:40:25:



The Hyundai Ioniq will travel as much as 174 miles (6.2 miles per kWh). I expect the average is lower, but nowhere near the rediculous 1 1/2 miles quoted in a previous post! The latest model quotes 4.8m/kWh which should be easily attainable. Yes, real mileage is less than the quoted figures in winter, but newer models fare better than your estimate of only 2/3rds. Summer mileage can easily exceed the quoted figures by an appreciable margin, too. It rather depends on the skill of the driver a lot of the time!

So 174 miles at 6.2 miles per kWh is 28.06kWh from a 240v supply 116.9Ahrs. As 35amps have been quoted, as a charging rate, that's 3.35hrs to recharge.

We are not being Luddites here, we know something needs to be done and EV's look to be a promising solution. But the point being made is what is the plan to harness whatever energy source is going to be used and build the infrastructure to get the power to where people will need it?

There does seem to be a lot of “trust us” “she’ll be right” but not a lot of detail about any practical engineered solutions, short, medium or long term

07/05/2019 21:15:58

We all know that electric vehicles in one form or other are here to stay. Every day we hear the virtues of this technology or that and benefits and features of one manufacturers approach as opposed to another’s

So, like any project, we’ve seen the brief, we’ve got some sort of business case, we are seeing the proof of concept, you can go and buy one. What we haven’t seen is any solid on-going forecasts or plans for how this is going to play out long term, particularly for the power infrastructure. Which is the point I’ve been making and we are now discussing.

I agree; my calculations are very ‘fag packet’ I cobbled them together from the information I had available, just to make the point. I could well be way off. I would expect that the power companies are working on this but would suspect that the answer could be too unpalatable to be made public. No doubt there are a number of our members from the power industry. Are they aware of anything in the public domain that they can share with us particularly around power consumption forecasting for the introduction of EV’s?

Maybe we should lobby the IET and get them to do an issue of Engineering and Technology (E&T) on the subject?

07/05/2019 11:32:23

Once everybody in the street is charging their vehicle when they get home the peak period will be at night and the daytime will be off peak.

As pgkpgk pointed out 35amps for an hour to do 21miles. lets say charge to do 100miles thats 44Kwh being drawn at night time, for one property. The cables will be glowing in the dark in the commuter belts

Edited By Doubletop on 07/05/2019 11:34:43

05/05/2019 00:04:27

Mandatory GPS trackers on vehicles opens up many possibilities

  • Missing vehicle searches
  • Road user charges
  • Automatic speeding fines
  • Automatic crash detection (tied to airbag triggers they'd know how major a crash was before anybody managed to get out of their cars)

Big Brother is certainly with us. The 'Thought Police" will be next

04/05/2019 10:16:27
Posted by FMES on 04/05/2019 09:31:49:.......................

The two main points raised were: 1, the availability of 'Economy 7' meters will be phased out as there will be no surplus of power during the off peak periods, and 2: the position of the government with regard to lost fuel duties from fossil fuel burning vehicles, the general concensus was that additional dudies (tax) would be placed on EV charging rates in order to recover the losses.

Think about adding another 40% cost (Based on current fuel duty) to eack KWH of charge time - plus VAT of course.


I had asked the same question about the government’s loss of fuel tax as everybody switches over to EV's. It was pointed out to me that we already have a system working in New Zealand. We don't pay tax on diesel fuel but diesel vehicles are subject to Road User Charges. You pay in advance depending on the type of vehicle you own. In an attempt to encourage take up EV's don’t pay RUC at the moment but it would be easy to tag them on

Removing the off-peak electricity charges will be the tip of the iceberg. The generation and power transmission infrastructure will need beefing up and that will need to be paid for. That will be by all users not just the EV's owners.

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