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Member postings for Oily Rag

Here is a list of all the postings Oily Rag has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Quick question on Deckel tapers
30/04/2019 18:36:39

It may be a Thiel taper - I need to dig out my collection of Thiel tooling to check it and IIRC the Thiel taper does differ from Deckel - but not by very much!

Thread: Moving from Warco WM180 to a Myford ML7B ?
11/04/2019 14:18:43
Posted by not done it yet on 11/04/2019 01:52:37:
Posted by Old School on 10/04/2019 13:37:16:

If your ant a Myford their other options than the 7 series have a look at the 254 I do like mine.

I (and others) reckon the 254 was a long overdue myford update to the Raglan 5” (Myford stopped production of that in the early 1970s). I’ve not seen a 254 in the flesh but the differences seem mainly to apply to the spindle speed control/selection and more continuous lubrication. The variable speed of the Raglan being, presumably, too expensive and the lubed gear box and apron of the 254 better than the QCGB and apron lube of the 5”.

Interesting that model nomenclature was similar to that of the Raglan lathe - the centre height only being metric on the 254. I don’t expect that the 254 apron is as sweet as that of the 5”, mind!

Clearly the oldest 254 lathes would be around 15 years younger and more ‘modern’ than the Raglan, but I reckon most potential 254 users would not miss out if the bought a good 5” - particularly with a huge cost saving over a second hand 254!

There are many who consider the Raglan as the best of the Nottingham offerings - the later 5" was, and still is, an effective lathe. The earlier Little Johns were just as loveable once you get used to their, sometimes, quirky behaviour. The benefit in my eyes is the one piece headstock and bed casting which makes them of proverbial 'brick out house' strength. The replaceable hardened steel bed shears makes renovation a straight forward task, the previously mentioned 'triangle' of CH to bed width comes good at 5.125" (CH) to 6.170" (BW) and the all up weight is impressive at 195kg for the LJ's and around 210kg for the 5", both weights quoted are without the factory supplied sheet metal stands which could easily double up as 'armour plate' gun turrets!

Timken taper roller bearings to class C6 for the headstock, separate power feed shaft and leadscrew (the leadscrew being dis-engageable when not in use), good sized clear dials, a plethora of accessories, some accessories interchangeable with Atlas 10-F lathes (vertical slide, toolposts), Imperial to metric threading via a simple 52T x 44T intermediate changewheel system (no need for 127T gears), a variable speed drive system on expanding/contracting cone pulleys (still in use on both of mine despite the use of a VFD) which with the 7:1 back gear gives a total indirect / direct speed range of 35rpm through to 2000 rpm (or more with the VFD).

The quirks are numerous but all are understood, probably the biggest problem to look for is a bent spindle combined with missing teeth on the bull gear. This may have been caused by one of two things - delinquent 'yoofs' from class 4B or the drop gear which sits on and outboard of the bull gear shaft seizing on the shaft through lack of lubrication, and resulting in the bull gear 'self engaging'. Virtually every LJ I have seen has had some similar problem in this area, I rebuilt mine with a new EN40B nitrided eccentric shaft and I run a needle roller bearing in the drop gear.

I am sure that you are right about the 254 was an attempt by Myfords to replace the Ragaln 5", and probably they took some design influence from the lines of the Emco Super 11, which happens to be another fine machine, but again one with some peculiarities! I find the lack of toolpost height on the Super 11 its biggest drawback, which then restricts the tooling to 1/2" shank which seems a little on the weeny side for a 5 1/2" CH lathe. Myfords probably priced the 254 against the Super 11 which probably 'fatally wounded' it in the market place. I am fortunate to have 3 Raglans (2 x MkII LJ's - 1 x CG, 1 x QCGearbox; and 1 x 5" QCGearbox) and a Super 11 - I would not hesitate to recommend the Raglans or the Emco.

Thread: Would you mesh with this?
10/04/2019 18:20:15

The gear rolling tester takes me back a bit ... Sorry to see inspection equipment so rusty (or any equipment, for that matter)

Sorry about the state of the tester Bill - but that was how I received it. It was in the scrap bin at an old engineering firm that had closed down and was given to me by one of the 'old boys', that knew I would appreciate it and look after it. It did receive some TLC and looks a lot better now!

The gear in the photo (on the tester) is marked up as the 'master' (stamped "RR PV12 S/C MS" - which I interpreted as 'Rolls Royce Private Venture 12 [the in house code for the Merlin] Supercharger Medium Speed" and it was used, I believe, as a Merlin supercharger drive gear tester. The 'Old Boy' told me that the company did Government contract work for Rolls during the war and this was one of the tools that had lain about for years under a bench. It works beautifully still - the clock is graduated in 1/10000ths - I have a video of it with a couple of close ratio motorcycle gears on it being checked for 'depth' and 'run out'. Now I know why they were so harsh! I haven't mastered how to post video's yet! There are some more photo's of the tool in my album. The plant reference paint markings are pure artistry. You will also see it is a Parkson make, from memory Parkson took over the Sunderland Gear business in the 1930's which ties in with the quoted history.

10/04/2019 14:40:56

Looks like this would be the ideal tool to check the depthing and run-out?img_1489.jpg

Thread: Sending of heavy items
08/04/2019 23:13:55

Just when I learn about a thing called "Metric" someone mentions "stone". Whose stones did they use? How did this come about? .

It's simple Mark - a 'Stone' was defined as a rock or large pebble the size of a clenched mans fist. It was almost certain that in faraway days they had big hands from toiling in the fields! That translated to 14 pounds in a stone, and 2 stones made a 'quarter' (28 lbs), 4 stones became a half hundred weight (written '1/2 cwt' with 8 stones being a hundred weight (1 cwt, at actually 112lbs!). It's still used in the UK as being the terminology for body mass, surprisingly even youngsters are still using it. So a persons weight will be defined as say 14 stone 5lb.

If anyone asks you about the differences in the US gallon and the Imperial gallon that came about as a result of the US maintaining the 'old' weights and measures system of Queen Anne post the revolution. In the UK the government taxed wines and ales by the pint, so the victuallers increased the 'size' of the pint from 16 fluid ounces to 20 fluid ounces. Hence the USA stayed with the 16 fl. oz. pint and we went with the new tax busting 20 fl. oz.

Thread: Myford 254s accessories ?
24/03/2019 17:42:32

Duncan - That;s a 5" Raglan fixed steady, looks like it is off the Little John rather than the latter 5" (they were both 5" centre heights though)

Thread: Dial indicator probe threads
24/03/2019 17:30:07

Try a bicycle spoke! Worked for me on several occasions.

Thread: No7 Taper Pin Source
23/03/2019 20:30:16

Hi Peaky - sounds a blinder!

Good to hear the shaper is clapping away nicely now, you just can't beat that sound. BTW have you found a source for swan neck tools for the shaper. I have an ex- REME WWII mobile workshop Atlas 7" shaper which I had given to me by a farmer, it was a heap of rust when I dragged it back home but is now re-conditioned and working well. With care of set up it will maintain a 0.0002" tolerance for flatness on the full machine envelope.

Thread: Parting off - front or rear
23/03/2019 19:09:13

John Ward sells an extended and T slotted cross slide for the South Bend and SB Clones (like Boxfords). My Raglan has only a short cross slide as standard but the John Ward long slide that he produces for the Raglan is ideal for rear toolposts.

Thread: No7 Taper Pin Source
22/03/2019 22:50:11

Taper is 1 in 48 for imperial taper pins (as opposed to 1 in 50 for metric) also pin is defined by the measured from the small end for imperial pins (IIRC??). I've got a nice small capstan tool with a tapered 'slide' for making imperial pins, a sort of capstan 'taper turning attachment'! I made it as an apprentice 50+ years ago.

Thread: Parting off tool - straight or angled.
21/03/2019 19:59:02

On the question of inverted parting off from a rear toolpost ... the other reason given for the chatter free method is that the cross slide is lifted against the dovetails of the saddle and this makes the action 'solid'; however, the front toolpost position relies on the cross slide sitting atop the saddle ways and able to 'bounce' from the flat to the dovetail and hence incur and promote chatter.

I had numerous problems in parting off from the front toolpost on my 50 odd year old lathe, as soon as I went to a rear toolpost set up for parting off I never looked back. No more chatter, no more jambs, no more broken tools! It is so good that I now use an Iscar 3mm inserted tip part off blade, or on some aluminium jobs a very high rake HSS triangular blade with about 1.5" sides set vertically (I don't remember where the tool came from but it works very well)

Thread: Inverter Tripping RCD
21/03/2019 10:45:17

An interesting discussion and one where I have had some experience of in both a factory situation and in a domestic workshop. The former led to a cure for the later!

The factory situation was that we had a small machine shop situated at the far end of the factory (offices and stores) building. We had to extend the wiring from the main CB to the far end of the 'shop' (it only had a single phase circuit at the far end but needed a 3 phase 100 Amp supply for the machinery). The wiring was duly done and immediately we had the CB tripping the whole building off. The electrician immediately said that the problem was the RCB timer value being too short. As you all know the RCB works by measuring current 'in' against current 'out' and if it has to travel a long way the time constant needs extending - he upped it from something like 10 micro sec to 25 micro sec and cured the tripping problem. My house had the same problem with the workshop occasionally tripping the RCB on inverter switch on. A change to the timer constant of the RCB cured the tripping.

Edited By Oily Rag on 21/03/2019 10:46:27

Thread: Herbert Cridan lathe
20/03/2019 19:32:37

Cri-Dan was a French company who licenced machine tool manufacturers around the world to build their machines (companies such as Kirloskar, Gisholt, Realmeca, there was also one produced by Lees-Bradner and called the Sentinael [spelling correct!]) . The Herbert Cri-Dan was manufactured at the Alfred Herbert, Edgwick plant, Coventry between about 1960 and 1975. The novelty of the Cri-Dan was it used a 'drag bar' arrangement - at least on the model 'A' - which had the threading slide sit at an angle above the workpiece. The slide was hydraulically controlled.

I served my apprenticeship at Edgwick and would often look on in bewilderment at the speed these machines could operate at. Not really a practical machine for the home workshop though!

Thread: Recommended paint for a FLB redwood external door?
20/03/2019 18:47:10

There's only one 'paint' for exterior hardwood - Sovereign SX70 - stain and clear top coat. I guarantee you will not be disappointed (except possibly by the price - but quality comes at a cost!). I have used it on my front door and everyone that comes to the house comments on the gloss and durability of it.

Sovereign Chemicals are based in Barrow in Furness, Cumbria (tel 01229 870800)

For paint I would recommend Sikkens 'Rubbol AZ Plus' it is what they use on the front door of a particular house in Downing Street, London! Available in other colours than Black though.smiley

Thread: Raglan training lathe value?
20/03/2019 18:25:56

Hi Rainbows,

Late to this discussion but in defence of the Raglan Loughborough I have to say that they all came (as far as I know) with a flat machined along the front bed face below the front way which accepted the saddle rack. I have a nice example which was given to me as it was being scrapped out from a school. It came with a capstan attachment so the bed was unworn - for some reason it did not have a cutoff slide, I know not why! The capstan attachment I use on my LJ MkII when ever I need it. The rest of the machine was parked up in a corner of my shed awaiting some inspiration as to what I was going to do with it.

I thought about a CNC conversion and also about a 'swinging bed' cam grinder. The former would have used a stepper driving the longitudinal traverse hand wheel (using the bed mounted rack and positioned by a DRO scale) the cross slide (from my Raglan 'spares' would have been driven by its leadscrew via a stepper and positioned by reference again to a DRO scale.

However I fancied converting it to the latter 'swing bed' cam grinder as a more challenging concept.

As has been said previously they are built solidly, the 'Boro does not suffer from the LJ problems of a 'weak' spindle (i.e bowed) which is generally caused by the bull gear self engaging by the seizure of the drop gears riding on the bull gear eccentric shaft (or being maliciously engaged by school delinquents!) as the 'Boro does not have a back gear assembly. The spindle bearings are Timken taper rollers and although the C5 grades are almost impossible to find they do exist - at a price! but standard grades are still available at around £30 a set. The lack of the bull gear assembly also results in the 'Boro spindle being shorter than its equivalent in the Little John. One oddity is the spindle bearings are grease packed - if the machine has stood for anytime expect the grease to have 'caked' solid and the bearings to need re-packing.

They usually come with a nice heavy gauge metal stand, due to the underhung motor system, and the flat belts for the 3 speeds result in a smooth power transition. With a 3 phase motor and a VFD speed control is easily achieved (although you may wish to rig up a separate motor cooling blower for use with extended slow speeds)

They are generally unloved machines which have a good pedigree. I am torn at the end of the day between modifying mine or just returning it to its original condition - with a capstan and a 'cut off' slide and possible a bar feed system. I would advise anyone to grab one if they see one advertised at the 'right price (£150 - £250?) as they are very rewarding machines, the only downside maybe the shears are as cast, unlike the 'bolt on' Little John and 5" Raglans, but they can be reclaimed if worn fairly easily.

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