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Member postings for Ramon Wilson

Here is a list of all the postings Ramon Wilson has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Boll- Major 4.4cc Diesel
02/05/2021 19:06:16

.......... I do not do the anodising myself. I have a local firm who is happy to do my bits.......

Lucky you Keith, no wonder it has that 'professional' look about it wink

Anodising is not a difficult process to undertake but it is (at amateur level) fraught with inconsistencies in colour uptake.

Just had a great afternoon 'circulating' despite a good soaking and rained off toward the end. A 'damp and slack' (tissue that is) situation if ever there was.

What's next BTW


01/05/2021 23:36:08

Superb result Keith, another beauty to the collection yes (and besides at .6cc adrift who cares wink)

The green ano is exceptional - whose dye did you use?

As my old boss would say on a job well done - "Ex - a - lent - tayy"

(haven't been doing much lately - the old Control Line bug has struck again smiley)

Regards - Tug

Thread: model engine world magazine
23/04/2021 20:55:11

Model Engine World, the brain child of John Goodall ,came out in the nineties and I subscribed to it for a few years.

Aimed primarily at commercially made engines it was published for several years. All my copies have long gone but I'm sure many could be found on the usual sources.

I just Googled it - heres the original source Bamopro


Thread: Stuart Twin Victoria (Princess Royal) Mill Engine
12/04/2021 20:48:11

Hi Doc , been out of it for a few days (plastic distraction) so only just caught up with your progress. Nice work on the boring bar and you initial tool grinding. You might find a holder made from round bar more beneficial in creating angles but those you've got so far look just fine. I would use the sharp tip as per the last image for getting under the skin but for a really good finish 'off the tool' on the last ten thou or so I'd grind (not file) a nice radius on that corner.

Keep the speed and feed well down for best results.

Looking good - go for ityes


Thread: Gluing Aluminium
01/04/2021 09:07:23

Stuart, I have only just seen your thread otherwise would have commented earlier.

Looks like you have now found the extremly useful attributes of JBW. There are other alternatives equally as good of course but are usually much more expensive which is a factor to be considered if it is going to sit on a shelf between occasional useage.

As Tim and I'm sure like some others on here I have built and raced IOM and Mablehead yachts but not recently. Stangely enough I don't recall having a use for JB on any of them though.

Hope your model sails well

Ramon (Tug)

Thread: Donald Campbell
23/03/2021 22:52:38

yes Just watched it too - excellent programme indeed.

Jan4th 1967 - I was in a company vehicle travelling to Fishguard from Cardiff when the announcment of his crash and death came on the radio - that's a memory clear as a bell

Thread: Endmill smear of metal
22/03/2021 11:28:53

Andrew - the recommendation to stone a flat on a drill when drilling brass is only if it's opening a previously drilled hole. A drill if not treated in that way will quickly pull itself into the brass up a pre existing hole. The flat may be there but it still needs to be sharp to perform at its best.

With regard to the original post any feshly sharpened tool either a new cutter or one freshly ground will cut bronze effectively and with a good finish. Use anything other than that then the finish is as described, wavy, looks 'pushed' rather than cut and will have a large burr in the direction of cut. All metals if the cut goes over the edge in the direction of cut will create a burr but this is usually on the very edge of the part. Using a used cutter on bronze the edge will literally form a considerable burr that is far more difficult to remove cleanly than that on any other material.

Ron is right in his advice though as far as drills go I do not bother to keep some for brass only - just regrind them to suit as and when - but milling cutters and files definitely get used on brass first before moving over to steel


21/03/2021 22:31:49
Posted by Chris Gunn on 21/03/2021 22:10:10:

Nick, my guess would be that the end mill is not sharp.

Chris Gunn

Agreed and possibly been used before on steel? As Andrew says brass is unlikely to exhibit this 'pushing' characteristic to any great extent but bronze and gunmetal certainly will if the tool has been used on anything but brass before.

I mark all new cutters used on brass as such using them on steel only as the edge wears off.


Thread: JB Weld
18/03/2021 13:17:44

Thanks for that Ron that's an interesting use of JB and shows another of it's capabilities. Something to bear in mind for the future yes

Though I would agree that a helicoil would be the better option NDIY that does mean one has to have the right helicoil insert to hand along with the relevant helicoil tool. A couple of tubes of JB on the other hand can sit there for use on all sorts of occasions.

It goes without saying that any manufacturers claims are based on optimum conditions but for this product and similar - attention to cleanliness, correct proportions of base material and hardener, and thorough mixing are easily attained. Gentle heat as mentioned previously is not specifically necessary but does help the cure time and possibly the cure strength.

Patience however, to ensure a full cure before stressing the item by machining etc, is down to the individual of course wink

Regards - Tug

18/03/2021 10:32:48

Hi Bill,

'Too old and too slow' eh - yeh I really know the feeling. I returned to flying C/L about six months before the lockdown and found it difficult to keep my balance - not dizzy but definitely unstable at first. I was just beginning to find my feet (pun intended) when lockdown struck. I'm hoping however to try our local common again next week where I haven't flown for many a year. I shall only take a 1.5cc powered Talisman - wonder how long it will take the Nay Sayers to zoom into our patch!

Ron - interesting to hear your comments on that you've turned JBW and tapped it. I've milled it of course but not tried those ops. I would imagine the turning to be no different to the milling but how did the tapping actually go? Was this into solid JB and how did the thread(s) stand up if so. I'd certainly be interested to hear your findings on that.

Regards - Tug

Thread: Advice on Heat Treating
18/03/2021 10:18:37

Hopper, as you rightly infer there are as many shades of cherry in the basket as there are cherries! Knowing which one to pick is another matter wink

As Dave says there is skill and judgement required but it's not a difficult process in the home workshop. The main thing to be aware of is overheating the part. If it's felt taht is the case just let it cool slightly before plunging into the oil bath. Simply dropping parts in is not a good idea as if the part is thin and goes in at even a slight angle to the surface of the oil distortion usually occurs.

I've said on many occasions I still get a buzz out of making a cutting tool and seeing it work as hoped for.

Like most I use silver steel and for most small cutters never bother to temper so as to have maximum hardness. Though it is intended as water hardening steel I always quench in oil basing this on an experience at work. At one time we produced a largish (for us) batch of small 12 mm diameter 'cams' with a 4 mm hex socket broached in one end. Quenched to manufacturer recommendations a very high percentage of them cracked on use around the hex socket.

The new batch were quenched in oil with a 100% success rate. Since then I have always quenched in oil for that reason. Yes the resultant hardness factor is not quite the same but it has always proved more than enough to do the job in hand. It has to be said that usually said tools are only for the one job so the risk of cracking is outweighed by the hardness of the cutting edge - for me. Were it to be something intended for long time use then it would get tempered.

Besides that occurance with Silver Steel, in the many thousands of tool steel parts heat treated over several years I only witnessed cracking of one batch of components. Because that was only one of the four batches out of the oven treated it was quickly realised that this was the first batch quenched into oil that was at ambient temperature. It had been a very cold night and though a modern factory the oil temp was well below what it would have been normally. From that point on a cube of steel was heated at the same time and dropped ito the oil to take the chill off before that first batch went in. Obviously that oil increased in temperature as each batch was done but no variation in hardness was experienced as a result.

Most, though not all of our steels but including silver steel came from Uddeholm and all our heat treatment followed their procedures as closely as possible. Heat treatment was a regular occurence in the machine shop that I ran not so much daily but certainly weekly - along time ago now but still quite fresh in my minds eye smiley

Happy days - certainly miss the grinding facilities!


17/03/2021 23:17:35

Well, as I said I spent quite a lot of time at work responsible for the heat treating and grinding of small parts from Uddeholm 'Arne' B01 as well as other tool steels from the same supplier.

That was twenty plus years ago but to my surprise the heat treatment sheet for Arne as provided by Uddeholm then was identical to the one I have just looked at now here - page 4

We followed this procedure to the letter heating in Wild Barfield ovens to very controlled temperatures before quenching to room temperature in (whale) oil and carried out the tempering in a separate oven designed for that express purpose. When we began this process at first the initial batch went into the tempering oven with residue oil on it which created a considerable amount of smoke. From that point, after the initial quenching, these parts - they were mainly punches and anvils for small press tools and would be done as batches of twenty hanging in a mild steel carrier, four carriers to a load so eighty parts in all - would be dropped into very hot water and a product called Citri Kleen. This was a potent degreaser, the oil being rapidly dispersed and the parts were allowed a short time to dry off then placed in the tempering oven. As previously said that would be done twice so the parts would see a Citri kleen bath three times before grinding.

Arne B01 is basically the same as guage plate and is ideal for home based heat treatment. What is difficult to obtain and be aware of when flame hardening is the actually temperature at which to quench. 'Cherry Red' is an oft quoted state but that can vary as much as the amount of different people attempting it. What I can say - with certainty - is that when these parts came out of the oven having been at the correct temperature 800-850 depending on harness required they came out a very dull red indeed. Over heating then to a bright red or leaning toward orange is too much and will, if overdone, lead to a crystaline and brittle metal structure.

As Dave S has just remarked, time at temperature does not affect the degree of temper but a variation of temperature most certainly does which brings me right back to the beginning - the best thing outside an oven in the home workshop is a tray of hot sand for about as best control as you can expect


17/03/2021 18:57:19

Hi William,

If you are going to cold blue them unless things have changed from a chemical perspective I'm not so sure hardening would be a good idea anyway. Do you know if your Phillips solution will work on hardened steel?

Long time ago at work we tried the KoldBlak system. It worked really well on unhardened parts but would only produce a brown colour on heat treated and ground steel. The recomendation was to treat hardened parts with 'Aldecon C' if I remember the name correctly. I believe that was Hydrochloric acid and very strong. When we came into the toolroom after the first time we used that every steel surface and I do mean every was covered in a fine patina of rust -. Our benches where we serviced the press tools were steel topped and shiny with use - not any longer ! Ha! I was a popular boy as you can imagine.

Just another thought

Given your description of the marginal area at the end of the dovetail I would be inclined to leave the hardening experience for something later down the line

Good luck with it however you approach it thoughyes


Thread: JB Weld
17/03/2021 15:56:39

Keep at it Phil, it took me 40 plus years to build my Wide a Wake steam launch from the initial intention and tentative start in 1972 - enthusiasm can come from unexpected quarters at any time so don't despair quite yet - you never know, you know smiley

Regards - Tug

Thread: Advice on Heat Treating
17/03/2021 15:50:22

William - your original post suggests you wanted to 'colour' them so I suggested hot sand as the best method of controling that in the home workshop. You can indeed put it in with your pizza but the temperature required to get the part to a decent blue black will give you a very crusty edge and topping!!

Colouring as you describe, by heating and watching the colour rise up is usually carried out when making tools - quenching usually occuring as the 'pale straw' reaches the tip. That is not tempering in the true sense in that the part has not had time at temperature to temper fully. I first saw that done as an apprentice on the shipyard by the blacksmith heat treating my new chipping hammer made from an old file!

At one time In my working life I made, on a daily basis many, many small parts from various tool steels but mainly B01 Arne (gauge plate equivalent). These were heat treated correctly and tempered accordingly - usually for two hours per inch of ruling section and twice at that ie quenched after two hours and then repeated. Colour of course was none existent just a manky oily black but hardness was checked throughout the batch to ensure uniformity.

To achieve a colour, and a uniform one at that, the temperature has to be even and specific to have any degree of control (of the colour). Kitchen ovens aren't usually hot enough to reach a dark colour.

You could, as said, leave them as they are - unhardended. I have collets for my mill that I made circa 1984 from the same unhardened 01 tool steel and they are still in use today. Colour or even blacking could then be done by gentle heating and quenching though it will not be hard wearing or by any of the cold blacking methods which will fare much better

The above and previous comment is based on personal experience of heat treatment of tool steels and offered as such - hope it's of use

Regards - Tug

17/03/2021 12:03:28

Hii William, I've done a fair bit of heat treatment in my time and would definitely recommend the use of hot sand.

I have a tin of dry sand which I heat before the parts are introduced. The sand does need to be quite hot throughout beforehand otherwise there will be a temperature difference which, depending on the shape of the part may induce a colour variation .

I heat mine on one of those small gas camping stoves. Once hot the part, previously heat treated and cleaned back to parent metal and devoid of any oil (most important) is pushed down in the sand and constantly turned within it to ensure even heating throughout. Depending on the size of container you should be able to do both parts at once to get a degree of similarity but personally I would do them singly keeping a very wary eye on the colour changes. Drop the part in oil as soon as the colour desired is reached

One thing to particularly note is - if you are not happy with the degree of colour once quenched eg not dark enough the part will not change colour further if reheated unless the colour as first quenched is removed back to shiny metal again. It will just remain at that colour but it will continue to temper further.

Hope that helps some

Ramon (Tug)

Thread: JB Weld
17/03/2021 11:05:22

Thanks for that input Bill.

My thoughts had been for the piston crown and pin carrier as one piece with the skirt as a separate part. It was the thought of the potential for the skirt parting company that put me off trying

I can see the logic of your method is a far better option and as you say the JB is always in compression. I will certainly give it a go if I make another engine - indeed it might be a good enough reason to make another engine.

It's your last paragraph that gives the real reassurance though - if it stands up to powering a Peacemaker then it will withstand most that it's expected of it I'm sure. BTW was this your Sugden Special?

I have the major parts of a JB Atom save piston and conrod. A lovely little 1.5 that is worthsaving. The original had a ball ended little end - I'm thinking this may be a viable way of getting round that issue.

Cheers Bill, thanks indeed




Edited By Ramon Wilson on 17/03/2021 11:05:54

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 17/03/2021 11:06:53

17/03/2021 08:50:36

Hello Bill,

That is interesting to hear, especially it's longevity. I've often thought about making a composite piston but always been reluctant in case it separates under running conditions. It would certainly make captive wrist pins an easy option but of course would not be able to be dis-assembled once bonded.

You say the pin carrier was al alloy but assume the piston was cast or steel? - it would certainly make the internal machining so much easier.

I have no plans for another engine at the moment but if I do I'll give this method a try

Regards - Tug

16/03/2021 22:13:59
Posted by Phil H1 on 16/03/2021 20:02:09:
It just feels a bit like cheating. This JB stuff - like laser cut parts and accurate digital read outs on milling machines is making life too easy. I have always thought that model engineering was supposed to be a long painful experience.

Hi Phil,

I have to say I've never considered using digi readouts on a mill as cheating but more a means of producing accurate work without the worry of backlash and counting turns laugh. I've never bothered on the lathe but boy would I miss their facility on the mills if they packed up.

As for JB W - well this is one of those occasions where it very much depends on ones outlook. Lets face it castings are expensive at the best of times not to mention the possibility of misalignment, blowholes and hard spots. I know suppliers will (should) replace them if so but the frustration of machining something only to find well in the process that its of poor quality is not something I'd be happy about. The potential wait for a replacement before you caan start all over again is another matter too.

Castings, after all, are the means to replicate a part over and over but for the most part 'we' only need the one. Making it from barstock, not neccessarily from cast iron, to replicate something similar is to my mind a much easier road to take. One of the nicest aspects is that for the most part one has very clear datums from which to start.

So yes, it does take it away from the concept that 'model engineering was supposed to be a long and painfall experience' and though I'm sure that came from someone with his tongue firmly in cheek it's never been one I've subscribed to

We are all different but personally, from my perspective a part has to be fit for purpose and as long as it is then the means of manufacture has to be a better road if the surface can been smoothed out and the journey eased along the way - that does not mean taking shortcuts though wink

Regards - Tug

16/03/2021 17:26:14

Hi Guys, good to see the interest in this.

Yes the two packs are the same pre and post packaging. As Jason says Phil, the standard version is the one to use because of the reasons he states.

Bill (Phinn) the colour in the image is not as it is in reality - must be the lighting in the workshop. It is as you say a dark grey once correctly mixed. Based on something I once heard relayed from Ceiby Geigy on mixing Araldite I always make sure it is fully homogenised with no sign of any whiteness of the hardener or streaking.

Jim (Nic)'s comment on a heat source is a good one and like him I use a radiator. I have an ali sheet on top of an oil filled radiator that I stand all bonded parts on to cure overnight. I fettle it the following day as it is easier to file/sand than if left longer though it is always possible to work it at any time. I would wait further though before machining the parts if any stress from such would affect the bonded area. It machines well Derek but I have only machined it within using it as suggested. That is, I have not made anything from it as a solid block and then machined it.

I have used other products Martin (OR) Though I have not tried the titanium one I have used the Devcon 'epoxy steel' and also Loctite 'Metal Set' both as good but far more expensive - the extra expense not giving any real benefits over JB in this type of application. Very interesting to hear about the repair to a bore though - I'll bet it has got many engineers out of similar situations.

Like so many in the past I used silver solder to create parts and in some instances such as valve bodies etc I still do but the big advantage that JB has - if it is judged suitable for the task in hand - is that no heat source is required and subsequently no risk of distortion and not to mention the need to clean up flux residue.

The big advantage I found on the Corlis build in using it for the pipework and fittings was that, unlike silver soldering, all flanges could be dealt with in situ and as erected - no need to remove for soldering, making jigs and hoping that nothing moves - so no misalignment issues.

As said pleased to think you are finding this of interest - IMHO it really is a good product and one whose properties are well worth exploring.

Regards - Ramon (Tug)

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