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Member postings for Pete

Here is a list of all the postings Pete has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Indexable fly cutter
02/10/2012 14:00:14

I can't say if these types of fly cutters would be avalible in the U.K. But they are in North America. Their built by "New Generation". They do take a bit larger round industrial carbide replaceable tip, but that can be a good thing since various grades and coatings are avalible in those sizes. Unless you make a large error and badly chip or totally destroy the tip, their really cost effective. They might be a bit too large and heavy to be used in something lighter than a Bridgeport type mill since they can be adjusted up to a 6" diameter.

Pete

Thread: 4" parallels
30/08/2012 01:11:54

From my limited experience, Andy is 100% correct. Mine are "supposed" to be matched within .0002, they may well be, but their certainly not ground flat and true on the working surfaces.

You could plastic wrap your mill to guard against the grit, and then install a fiber cut off wheel in the mills spindle, then set each parrallel vertical and locked in the mill vice, set that cut off wheel at the 4" elevation, and then just cut each parrallel to the size you want. A 4" tall angle plate might work better. I agree with David though. The full length will work fine.

Pete

Thread: The Best of Model Engineer Vol 1
26/08/2012 22:06:00

I have almost a complete collection from the first one up to the 1960's. There's some very interesting reading in them. Just how few had any mill at all was more than a bit supriseing. The prices in the adds are also a bit funny today. I also didn't know the M.E. office got bombed during the second WW.

Pete

Thread: Haimer Measurement Probes
05/08/2012 05:18:01
Posted by blowlamp on 04/08/2012 00:45:47:

Anyone got one of these from Arceurotrade? **LINK**

Martin.

Martin,

Again my points are from a North American perspective. I spent a lot of time and did a lot of research before I spent the extra and bought the original Blake design. I've read numerous complaints about the item you show from North Amerian dealers. Again most people will post complaints far sooner than the ones will who are satisfied. I wish I could be more positive. Some have reported excellent results, others..................? To be fair I've also read the very rare complaint about the Blake units. Those did suprise me. Mine is well within it's readings and I wouldn't hesitate to depend on what my results are, and I'm more than happy with mine.

One thing to remember, due to their design, they aren't a true measurement system, just like a DTI it isn't for accurate distances in comparision to a standard analog or digital indicator. Their designed to center I.D. and O.D. parts. Your looking for a null or zero deflection on the needle. They do work very well if their accurate. If you do have a good dependable DTI, it's easy enough to test them. If it did turn out to be inaccurate? It would take a highly skilled home machinist with at least a tool post grinder.

Right now I don't have the tooling or real knowledge to do those improvements if they were needed.

Pete

Thread: MT2 x 1" arbor question
03/08/2012 20:28:16

Jon,

www.tools4cheap.net sell exactly what your looking for including the spacers for positioning the cutting tool. These are brand new reproductions of what the Atlas horizontal mill use. Jeff Beck is the owner and an excellent person to deal with.

Pete

Thread: Haimer Measurement Probes
03/08/2012 01:31:30

Michael,

No doubt your correct. Since I'm not using CNC, I had to post how I set up mine the old school way. I envy those of you who have the knowledge and abilities to fully utilise what CNC can do. I was more than happy the day I installed a X axis power feed.

Pete

02/08/2012 23:42:17

Hi Andrew,

A few thoughts that may be worth far less than you paid.

I bought mine a couple of years ago from a U.S. dealer where imperial measurements, tooling, and what I'm most comfortable working with are much more comman than most other areas of the world. The shank on mine is a true 3/4" and I'm using a Bison built end mill holder for mine.

After going back thru my Haimer manual and with a bit of thinking. Even though Haimer say's they should only be used with the same spindle you zeroed it to, just maybe zeroing your unit to the machine you use the most would be the best. Then with that preset zero, you could retest it in the second mill and record your deviation from a true zero in both X and Y? No it wouldn't be ideal since you'd have to always remember to compensate for that deviation on that machine. But these units are accurate enough that I think you could still depend on very good and accurate readings. Since I haven't yet used or tested mine on a second machine, I could easily have missed something with my logic.

Due to the way their designed, a dead true tram on both your milling heads probably isn't required. But I did do that while adjusting mine just as a precaution. I'll also 100% agree about the manual and Haimers description for zeroing with the built in adjustments. Frankly they could have done better. My manual shows the use of a standard dial indicator for setting that zero, since my .0001 reading indicators are the D.T.I. type, that's what I used. And I hope you've got a real good .0001 reading, or it's metric equivellent DI or DTI that your positive will give 100% accurate and repeatable results.

Your unit is newer and non digital, so the following may not match up exactly with what you have. The zeroing procedure in my manual do look to be the same for each type though. Setting for zero on these isn't something you want to rush. Maybe this will help you understand it a bit better? Think of the procedure as the same as what you'd do while setting an ultra precision ground rod in a lathes 4 jaw chuck for .0000 runout. It's basicly the same idea, except your now working vertical instead of horizontal, and with a lot finer thread pitch for those adjustments. From what I can tell, Haimer use an internal and fairly heavy spring loaded gimbal that the system uses to measure the probe movement. So, set up your DI or DTI with it's ball end centered as close as possible by eye to the center of the Haimers ball on the probe. Loosen all 4 of the Haimer adjustment screws, their located in the 4 holes just above the shank on your unit. (mine were pretty tight from the factory) Zero the dial on your DI or DTI. Ok, what you want to do is zero one axis at a time for either X or Y. We'll use X as an example. rotate your spindle by hand 180 degrees and check your DI or DTI indicator readings. Adjust those two Haimer adjustment screws till your indicator readings are the same each time you rotate the milling heads spindle by hand 180 degrees. Lock those screws down. Now do exactly the same for the Y axis screws. Your final check along with probably some very minor corrections on each of the adjustment screws is to rotate your spindle 360 degrees without getting ANY deflection on the DI or DTI indicators needle. It will take a bit of time to get this done. Good enough ISN'T for this job. You really do want .0000 if your patient enough. The really nice thing about this tool is that it doesn't depend on any real imperial or metric measurement system. Once the unit is properly adjusted for zero to your spindle centerline, then all your needing is to move your part edge for either axis till the needle or display reads zero. There's nothing to remember to do or compensate for like the standard offsets on the wobble type edge finders. Once your unit is properly adjusted for a dead on zero, then when the needle or display reads zero, that's exactly where you are. Your also not depending on these to "visually kick off" like the standard types do. Leaving aside a normal mills table flatness and overall machine rigidity. With one of these and a very good DRO, you can in a home shop replicate locational accuracys quite compareable to what some of the very accurate and more than very expensive jig borers like Moore Tools built could do.

Given that your also using CNC, overtravel well beyond the units safety limits could I guess easily happen. I hope you ordered or will now order a spare probe. You can't damage the measurement unit itself unless you had a sudden and unexpected Z axis crash, but you could break the probe due to that overtravel on either X or Y.

I really know less than nothing about CNC. But it's my understanding these can be used as a 3 axis probe system to manualy reverse engineer almost anything with a few different computer programs that are avalible. Yes it's much, much slower than something like a proper setup such as the Renshaw probe system uses. But it can be done with a lot more time involved.

You have my apologys for how long this turned out to be. But I hope this helps a bit.

Pete

31/07/2012 23:57:13

Hi Andrew,

Your more than welcome. These units once fully adjusted are an extremly accurate piece of equipment. I ran into a problem with mine due to inexperience with it till I figured out where my seemingly random results were coming from, and that just might possibly be what your seeing. During initial setup, your edge needs to be spotlessly clean and burr free. The same goes for when your using them. It can be easy enough to pick up a false edge just due to a burr, metal chip, or if your trying for close to jig boring accuracy and a dead on zero, even a film of heavy cutting oil could I guess be just enough to throw your results out to get that very accurate zero adjustment.

By now you've gone thru your manual and do understand what's needed. But others who might be considering buying one will be reading this also. You did mention using a collet to test the unit. For those that don't know it yet. Haimer recommends using an end mill holder as a dedicated holder for these units. Ideally you'd never remove it from that tool holder since for the final adjustments you zero the 3-D units probe to the spindles center line using Haimers built in adjustment screws. All or at least most spindles and collets have enough runout that the end mill holder is the much better way to go to get repeatable results. Now if your spindle and collets show .0001 for runout? Then you don't even need to be reading this.

These are a pretty expensive bit of tooling, There certainly not required for Model Engineering or almost anything I can think of done in a home shop. To get the most out of them, they do need the machine their used on to have a very good DRO. Considering their quality and accuracy, I think that their high price is justified.

I've also yet to understand just why most or all Chinese built tooling still has those soft and it seems non standard allen wrench openings. That's more than a bit frustrating.

Pete

30/07/2012 23:02:11

Andrew,

I have a Haimer digital unit,. It's doubtful anyone could find fault with Haimers quality. I can understand and fully sympathise with you about some of the problems with various dealers and the games they happen to play just like you've experienced. Since I wasn't planning on using mine on a second mill, I haven't given it all that much thought. But given the way the Haimer is adjusted and set up for zero runout for that exact machine, it may or may not be practical to try and use it on two different mills. But I could be completlly wrong, so please post what you learn. This tool is about the only reason I can see that there's that internal set screw within a R-8 taper since it allows the endmill holder you would use to hold the Haimer unit to be inserted and be sure it's always at the same position each time in the spindle.. Most or any other spindle taper would need a permanent mark on the endmill holder and the spindle to use for alignment.

You will not have a good day if you happen to drop that unit. As far as I know there's no one in all of North America that can repair them. I can't say if there's anyone in your area that can. For myself, I'd need to return it to Haimer.

Pete

Thread: Not fit for purpose
30/06/2012 09:23:27

Normaly I wouldn't go against Davids opinions since I've found him to be very fair. His first comment was to me rather humerous also.

I can see and understand a new design having mistakes within it. That's understandable. While I don't know the exact process used to print the drawings today that My Hobby Store sells, and I'll refrain from getting into the fit for purpose issue. I do have a issue with the old drawings that contain well documented mistakes.

The George Gentry designed Model Engineer Beam Engine for example contains at least 11 mistakes that I know of. These drawings have remained unchanged for at least 30-40 years and possibly much longer than that. AFAIK Revees and My Hobby Store still sell these drawings without including a single additional sheet with those corrections listed that would be most welcome by any builder, and in todays world it would be almost impossible to add more than 10 cents in cost. I'm certainly not faulting David for this since it's not part of his job and the needed corrections should have been done decades before he became editor. So to be a bit logical about this? My Hobby Store, Revees, and any other supplier of drawings we use do have an obligation to at least correct the drawing mistakes as there found. Instead those mistakes are generaly ignored, and year after year different builders get the joy of rediscovering those same mistakes again and again. That is and would be a comman and important item for any company that cared about their customers perceptions in my humble opinion. That's not too much to ask from any company no matter what they sell. Or at least it shouldn't be if they want to remain in business today. As the end users and the people who keep Model Engineer and Model Engineers Workshop magazines going. I think we well deserve that minimal amount of attention to what My Hobby Store is selling to us. Any older drawing should by now be 100% correct. To say otherwise is illogical.

 

Pete

 

Edited By Pete on 30/06/2012 09:26:56

Thread: Converting a Vernier Height Gage to Digital?
09/06/2012 23:51:36

Hi Martin,

Thanks for the encouragement to post more often. Norman will know me and my thoughts, John Stevenson will also know me from the HSM forum.LOL,Then again they may not freely admit to that fact. There's a few others I can place due to their user names.

There is, And thankfully it is very uncomman, The very rare person who gets a weird perverse satisfaction from knowingly posting incorrect information. I'm not the type who tollerates games like that at the expence of the inexperienced. So far I've yet to see one of those on this forum. So I guess I should post or at least spend more time here. Overall there is much less argueing, And it seems much more actual logic used on this forum, So that's a nice refreshing change.

Well except for that last picture of Sir Johns that is. I do have to laugh every time I see it.

Pete

Edited By Pete on 09/06/2012 23:57:05

09/06/2012 19:43:06

Yes,I do know what the artical says, But it also doesn't say what accuracys you can resonablly expect. And as I mentioned, Far too many think because there's all those zeros after the decimal point, Then anything digital has to be really accurate no matter how cheap it is to buy. And nowhere does it mention or warn against destroying any value that's left on all those finely built Vernier Gages. There's a lot of those older height gages around now at fairly cheap prices, And yes a cheap one was used in that artical. Personaly I'd hate to see that type of work done on some of these old but fine tools due to inexperience and thinking it's a great idea to do so. If you do know your going to destroy a tools value and still chose to do so? That's fine, But a bit illogical to me.

And I'd also agree that very accurate digital equipment can be bought today that is extremly accurate. But not normaly at a price most of us would be happy to pay. I know exactly how much it hurt to buy my 12" digital Mitutoyo, And it's repeatable accuracy. But I also have a very good set of gage blocks that do allow accurate checks to be done. So if and when it's rarely required, I can use my height gage for accurate measurements beyond the inaccuracys of the tool itself.

Industry has gone to digital equipment for many reasons, Less mistakes, speed of measurements, ease of usage would be just 3.That's also why I've bought some digital equipment. LOL, Due to age and not needing that magnifying glass is really nice too.

I guess the main reason I started this thread was it cost me far too much to lean the little I do know the hard way. I wouldn't like to see anyone else have to do the same. Maybe I'm wrong, But I still happen to think forums like these are or should be where the more experienced can help to educate the less experienced. And since this sub forum is for anything in MEW. I figured this was the correct place to add what I thought was missed in that artical. Overall I do think it was well done. It's just that it missed those important points.

And as usual, John Stevenson is 100% correct, But that's another reason I bought good gage blocks. I can calibrate and check my own equipment so they all agree with each other. Maybe not to National recognised standards. But my gage blocks are my standards. Yearly metrology lab recertification probably isn't needed by the vast majority here either. Being within a few thou is more than good enough for almost anything most including myself will normaly need to do.

But If this thread helps even one person to understand the value of some of the older tooling and the difference between resolution and accuracy, Then it will have been worth it IMO.

Pete

08/06/2012 22:32:38

I had to think really hard before posting about this since many will disagree with me. But the artical in the July issue of MEW does require some additional information that wasn't properly covered.

It's not my place to say what anyone should or shouldn't do with anything they happen to own or buy. But due to inexperience, People following that artical may end up with far less than they started with. Starret and Mitutoyo to name just 2 manufactures today still produce high quality vernier height gages. And there were litterly dozens more in the past. All those very well made vernier height gages are in fact a lot more accurate (but slower to read) than most high cost and barely affordable dial and digital models built today. There's not enough information around, But it really should be closer to comman knowlege. You should search for what the terms actually mean when buying accurate metrology equipment. Accuracy and resolution are not properly understood and confused by far too many.

If you were to spend less than an hour learning the proper way to read a vernier scale, And a bit of time checking the accuracys obtainable with them against what the much higher priced dial and digital ones are capable of? Then personaly I don't think I'd be all that quick to convert a well made but older vernier gage over to digital. And I'm saying that because I bought a brand new digital height gage built by Mitutoyo. Both Mitutoyo and Starrett built very high quality equipment with the prices to match. So if they build far in excess of $1,000.00 height gages with all the technology they have avalible, Yet they state the repeatable accuracys are only within a couple of .001?

Personaly I fail to see where adapting a rather cheaply made Chinese digital scale will give you anything approaching what the original vernier scale does for repeatable accuracy on a tool that was well made and accurate to begin with. Yes it's faster, But a tape measure is also much faster and much cheaper than a height gage.

If the accuracys avalible from those cheaper built digital height gages are good enough for what your doing? Then I'd just buy one of those and refrain from making irreversable modifications to an old tool that will be mostly worthless to anyone else once your done with it.

Pete

Thread: drawbar tightening- how hard?
19/03/2012 17:23:11

Neil has answered your question very well. As an extra on exactly why you shouldn't over tighten that drawbar. Hard hammering on the end of the drawbar will drasicly shorten the life of your spindle bearings. There's not a ball or roller type bearing made that will tolerate high shock loads to them without shortening that life span.

Pete

Thread: Copies of Old Model Engineer magazines on disk?
27/11/2011 07:52:17
Nigel,
Thanks for the link to the previous discussion about this. I guess I didn't use the correct search terms.
 
Ady,
I'll certainly agree 100% with your points, And especialy so about anything would have to have a search function. I've maybe gone thru 10% of the magazines I bought and the volume of information is staggering.
 
Pete
26/11/2011 22:16:39
Well I don't often post here, But I just bought over 60 years worth of old Model Engineer magazines starting from 1898. It's totally amazing just how much information is cramed into these.
 
I did more than a few searches on this site to see if this topic has been posted about before, And at least with my search terms nothing came up. Not to make David Clark's job any tougher than it is. But is there any plans to offer a set of disks with the full collection of M.E.s on them?
 
For myself, The locomotive, boating information has really nothing of interest, But there's more than enough other information that made them well worth buying. It seems almost criminal to have all that information locked up in those old magazines and so few people having access to it. I do know there's some copyrite issues, But that should be able to be resolved somehow?
 
Pete
Thread: Subscription number
23/09/2009 05:04:12
David,
I am an overseas subscriber thru EWA, I've also tried to input my subscription number with no sucess, I then emailed the above address at my hobby store and recieved no response from them, Since subscription number problems and how to resolve them have been well addressed for subscribers in the U.K. shouldn't your overseas subscribers get the same attention?
 
Pete
Thread: Sticker shock
19/09/2009 06:07:31
First post for me here, I work in the mining industry in Canada at an open pit Copper/Gold mine, Last week Copper was listed at over $3.00 canadian per pound, And gold was over $1000.00 an ounce, If you keep a eye on the price of commodities you'll have a rough idea on the direction the price of metals is going to go, While the currant price for commodities takes awhile to show up at your local supplier it will happen. Copper right now is just about at an all time high so you can expect the price of brass to go even higher. Sorry for the bad news but some of you might want to stock up even at today's prices. How long these prices will stay high no one knows, But you also might want to remember that price wise copper has historicly been a very volitile metal, Who knows, 6 months from now it might be at an all time low price, But I wouldn't bet on it.
 
Pete
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