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Member postings for Peter Gain

Here is a list of all the postings Peter Gain has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Low Temp Silver Solder
29/07/2011 15:25:31

In his book, “Model Locomotive Boiler Building”, Alec
Farmer specifically cautions against silver soldering any boiler which has been
put into service. He recommends using high temp soft solder. Page 187, too much
to quote here. Best to check with your local boiler inspector to be on the safe



Thread: Precision Optics Engineering history
31/03/2011 17:02:16
Steve, the Rollei company was founded by 2 Germans, Franke & Heidecke in Braunschweig, Germany, c1920. They had no connection with the famous Zeiss optical company other than they used Zeiss lens for many years. Rollei are credited with producing the first really successful twin lens roll film reflex camera which was subsequently copied by many other firms. The Rolleiflex was virtually "standard issue" to photo journalists & newsmen for several decades. Over the years many books have been published about the Rollei company in many different languages. A "Google" session should turn up several volumes to keep you busy. I have a 50 year old Rolleiflex & a similar age Rollecord, both function as well now as when they left the factory. A complete contrast to the modern digital cameras!
Peter Gain.
Thread: Workshop insurance
31/03/2011 16:36:12
Hi John,
Have just re-read your post. I now see that you state ANY welding, so that answers part of my question.
Peter Gain.
31/03/2011 16:33:42
Hi John,
I will soon be renewing my household policy & wish to include my workshop so I am very interested in this post. You state that insurance companies will not accept welding activities. Without wishing to sound pedantic, do you know if the use of propane gas for brazing/silver soldering is considered in the same light? And does the ban include electric welding?
Peter Gain.
Thread: Shed for a workshop - any advice?
22/03/2011 10:44:11
Buy a copy of "Workshop Construction", Workshop Practice Series, No 23. It contains much useful advice, especially regarding insulation. I found it well worth the price.
Peter Gain.
Thread: Mill and lathe motor upgrades
22/02/2011 19:15:35
Hi Kwil,
I played with the software but still found it impossible to prevent the whine from the Indian motors.
Wish I had known that a metric motor will fit a Myford. Would have saved me much time trying to find a good quality motor. Ramon reports that his Italian metric motor is very smooth & quiet.
Peter Gain.
Thread: Made me chuckle
22/02/2011 15:16:52
There are (or were) several large notices along the sea front at Lyme Regis stating "Warning - Rocks Slippery When Wet".
My daughter recently had an application form for employment with Surrey County Council which asked the question, "Are you now still the same gender as when you were born"!
Peter Gain.
Thread: Mill and lathe motor upgrades
22/02/2011 15:09:33

Like Ramon, I decided to replace the single ph motor on my Myford Super7 with a 3ph one. As the machine has a clutch I wished to leave the motor running between operations & while “miking” etc. The existing motor produced more noise than I cared for.

I obtained a conversion set from one of the advertisers in ME. The motor was an Indian made product. To me it seemed too noisy & emitted an unpleasant high pitched whine.

The supplier exchanged it for another. This was just as bad & was returned. A 3rd one produced the same unfortunate noise. To his credit, the supplier gave me a full refund for the price of the motor. I retained the inverter & remote pendant.

Some surfing & e-mails revealed that these Indian motors are imported by at least 2 different companies. One, Massey-Coldbeck, supplies them branded as Greaves-Crompton & are marked “Made in India”. This was the first motor I tried. Another importer brands them as “BFM” (Beatson Fans & Motors), they are not marked with the country of manufacture.
Surfing showed that good quality FHP electric motors emit between 47dB(A) & 50 dB(A) on no load at 1mtr. Testing the supplied Indian motors the average noise was recorded as 56dB(A) to 58d(BA), on no load at 1mtr.

Massey-Coldbeck stated that they have supplied over 3000 of these motors with very little adverse feedback. It transpires that many of them are used to drive extract fans in chip fryers in fast food outlets. Not surprising that noise complaints do not feature.

A company trading as “Electric Motors2Go” offer 3ph FHP motors which they claim are “made in European community”. But the illustration clearly shows a BFM branded product which has been confirmed by BFM as being made in India. I e-mailed Tony, the owner/manager of Electric Motors2Go pointing out the obvious discrepancy & asked for his comments. He declined to answer. (From 1st of March advertising on the internet will be subject to control by the Advertising Standards Authority).

I gave up trying to source a new motor made EU/USA/Australia. (So far as I can ascertain there are no motors made in the UK). I finally obtained a second hand motor from Myford. It is a well made Brook Crompton Parkinson (Hawker Siddeley) product supplied in the maker’s original box. It was made in Doncaster before the Tyco take over & is built up to a specification rather that being made down to a price to suit the accountants. When running it has that indefinable quality purr rather than a harsh grating noise. The average sound level produced is 47dB(A).

Ramon refers to the high quality of the Italian made motor. Unfortunately, there does not seem to be an easy way to mount a metric motor onto a Myford.

I accept that I may be too fussy & make too much of the noise level, others may be more tolerant. But to fit a cheap motor to a Myford is analogous to installing a Ford diesel engine into a classic Rolls-Royce.

Regards, Peter Gain.

Thread: Slideway guard on warco vmc milling machine
16/02/2011 10:28:08
I have a Warco WM16 mill/drill. The concertina protection is retained by plastic cross pieces. After a few month's use these cross pieces detach themselves from the column. The concertina then sags uselessly away from the column which it is supposed to protect. Pressing back into place works for a few more months, they eventually become loose again & refuse to stay in place. My guess is that all suppliers offerings are similar. I have replaced the item once but have now given up & simply rely on constant wiping clean of the column.
Regards, Peter Gain.
Thread: Electric Motor Noise
24/01/2011 16:48:35
Alan, I have since been informed that the importer of my motor - he who claimed no noise complants - has supplied most of the units to fast food outlets. They are used for the ventilation of chip fryers & similar. No wonder he does not receive noise complaints.
Peter Gain.
Thread: Soldering & bits dropping off!
24/01/2011 16:35:29
Ian, that is certainly an interesting excercise! Did you pass?
Thread: Metric or Imperial, Fractions or Decimals
21/01/2011 15:38:45
Metric or Imperial; could depend on how many reamers you have & how often they are used in the project. Using modern, affordable measuring equipment it is easy to turn or mill in either units. But replacing several good quality reamers at once can mount up to a considerable sum.
Perter Gain.
Thread: Electric Motor Noise
18/01/2011 19:45:09
Hi Ian,
Your comments, Taiwanese v New Zealand quality equates to my UK v Indian quality. The sales literature referring to my Greaves Crompton states that it is "Highest quality". The sarcastic reply from the importer deserves a wider audiance. I quote,  (a direct paste from incoming e-mail).
"Since the Doncaster factory ceased production in March 2009 we have sold in excess of 3000 of the Indian Crompton Greaves motors and have a very small percentage failure rate and never had a complaint concerning noise level. The only B56 imperial motor we can offer is the Crompton Greaves and we are unable to improve the noise level previously supplied. I suggest your customer considers purchasing a Baldor motor, a US motor with similar dimensions but perhaps 4 times the cost."
This is analogous to complaining that a new Ford Focus is rattling only to be told by the dealer that you should have purchased a Mercedes!.
Lesson learned 
Peter Gain.
17/01/2011 16:19:43
Hi Keith,
Thanks for your observations which are very valid. 
I omitted to say that I have had 2 Indian motors. The first one was noisy, I did not measure the output but simply compared it "by ear" to the UK made single phase motor. The seller willingly supplied another motor.
This second one was run on the bench & then the UK Tyco Crompton was run in the same position. The readings were obtained using a buget price meter that I was assured would give meaningful results, but however, would not be considered good enough for (say) a court hearing. The figures were as my previous posting
The first motor is still on the lathe & delivers the same 67dB(A) at 1 metre as the did the second one. Virtually no difference is noted between "on the bench" & "on the machine" values. I was informed by the supplier that resilient mounts were not necessary for 3ph motors.
I measured the sound levels with the lathe primary belt removed to eliminate noise generated by the belt & countershaft. I also measured with the belt & countershaft in motion. Very little difference was noted.
I have not named the supplier as he has been helpful to the extent of sending another motor at his expense & I consider that he has made a genuine effort to address the problem.
It could possibly be that both motors have come from the same rogue batch. However, my previous experience of Indian made products is that they have not yet managed to get the words "quality" & "control" into the same sentence! 
By comparison, my previous lathe was a factory re-con ML7, without a clutch. The single phase UK made Crompton motor, countershaft, & mandrel when running were unobtrusive. I now have an excellent lathe operated by a noisy buget motor. We live & learn!
Peter Gain.
17/01/2011 10:45:18
Hi Steve,
Thanks for your very helpful posting, you have told me exactly what I needed to know.
I had a Tyco-Crompton single phase .55kW motor (one of the last Doncaster made units) driving my Myford Super 7. In view of the comments made on this forum last year & the claims made by the advertisers in ME, I decided to install a 3ph motor & inverter package.
The new motor is a Crompton-Greaves .55 kW, made in India. I wanted to leave the motor running with the machine clutch "out" between operations. How-ever, the mechanical noise is too high & I find it irritating & have to switch off. (This defeats the object of the clutch).
I ran the Tyco-Crompton on the bench, no load, the noise was 52dB(A) at 1 metre. The Crompton-Greaves, no load, primary belt removed, noise was 67dB(A) at 1 metre.
Some data provided by "quality" motor manufacturers obtained from the internet, typically gives figures for FHP motors of .55kW as from 47 - 52 dB(A) at 1 metre.
In view of your comments I will have to write this of as an expensive mistake. At least I now know that it will be fruitless to pursue the matter with the supplier. Your last paragraph is particularly helpful.
Regards, Peter Gain.
16/01/2011 20:20:48
Ian SC, thanks for your interest, but I think that you have missed my point. I need to know if BS lay down a max acceptable mechanical noise for FHP motors. I purchased the motor on the understanding that it complied with the relevant BS specs. If to comply is mandatory, then I believe that I have possible claim for a too noisy product. If the BS is only a recommendation, then I will have to put the purchase down to an expensive mistake & in future steer clear of Indian made products.
Peter Gain. 
Thread: Warco milling machines
15/01/2011 19:08:21
I have had a Warco WM16 for 5 years. The only (minor) problem is that the bellows protecting the vertical column detaches itself & exposes the slide ways. I have added DROs (cheapos but surprisingly accurate) which make using the machine much easier. I have found the Warco staff helpful. The accuracy is much better than one would expect for the price asked. I have not had to adjust the gibs, they are as supplied. But do check the micrometer dials. As supplied mine were calibrated to give 1.250 thou per division! Warco replaced them with the correct divisions without any quibling. MEW review (August 2009)? gave the WM18 a good write-up.
Peter Gain.
Thread: Electric Motor Noise
14/01/2011 19:12:14
Thanks Bill.
Peter Gain.
14/01/2011 15:23:45
Does anyone have access to (or know how I can access) BS 4999-50, EN 60034-9 or IEC 60034-9? I require info re-mechanical noise from a .55kW, 3ph, 240v dual voltage motor. Do the above specs give either mandatory or guide line max noise levels? I have asked the manufacturer & the importer but they do not reply. (Why am I not surprised)?
Peter Gain.
Thread: Warco V Chester
08/01/2011 15:46:54
Try to find out why the AMA 16VF is cheaper. The reason could be significant.
Peter Gain.
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