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Member postings for Ketan Swali

Here is a list of all the postings Ketan Swali has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Arc Euro Trade website down
21/01/2020 15:58:45


Our website came back up at around 2.30pm.

There were some glitches in the first hour, which have now been rectified.

Orders placed through the website are coming through.

Thank you all.

Ketan at ARC.

21/01/2020 11:49:19

Ha Ha smiley

So far, we are still sitting calm, dealing with various other house keeping, stock take, etc.

We are taking orders over the phone - no more no less than usual, along with a good number of calls coming in from well wishers to tell us that our site is down.

Ketan at ARC.

21/01/2020 10:54:24

Hi Terry and All,

Keeping my fingers crossed failed to help. We are still waiting.

Latest I have been advised is that all will be back up by end of today, but judging by what has been said earlier, it is difficult for me to be sure.

Ketan at ARC

Edited By Ketan Swali on 21/01/2020 10:54:51

20/01/2020 09:41:53

Current status is that the technical guys are still working on the problem.

Now they are hoping that our site will be up latest by tomorrow morning. Fingers crossed.

Our telephone lines are working as normal for anyone wishing to place an order by phone.

Ketan at ARC.

19/01/2020 21:17:42

Our website went down at around 8.11pm this evening. Please accept our apologies if you have failed to get through.

The technical team at our service providers will be working through the night to fix the issues. It is hoped that our site will be back up by tomorrow morning.

I will post further updates as soon as I know.

Ketan at ARC.

Thread: Ebay being clogged up by certain sellers
05/01/2020 21:07:55


Removed, as I don’t think the link works correctly.

it was a link to an article where ‘

China Arrests 103 Accused of Making Counterfeit German Adhesive

Bloomberg News’

 It was about Loctite. The arrests were made just before Christmas last year.

Ketan at ARC

Edited By Ketan Swali on 05/01/2020 21:08:47

Edited By Ketan Swali on 05/01/2020 21:10:13

Edited By Ketan Swali on 05/01/2020 21:16:36

Thread: On The Wire -ARC Cutter Review
02/01/2020 16:02:00

Ron... agreed.... and that difference in thickness is also shown on our site, and it is as provided by the manufacturer we use. thank you. Hope it also comes across in the pictures shown above.

Ketan at ARC.

02/01/2020 15:55:29
Posted by Andrew Johnston on 02/01/2020 11:46:07:

Ketan: Thanks for the notes on inserts. The more I look at it the more I'm put off buying. I've been looking at inserts from Cutwel made by Korloy. They seem to measure insert length in a slightly different way so it's hard to compare like with like. Even in the Arc calalogue the length and width of the two inserts on offer are different. How does that work in the machined pocket?

Cutwel do inserts that almost exactly match the Arc part numbers, but are specifically for the Korloy Alpha Mill series. They also do ISO standard inserts. In this section the inserts are stated to be generic but the part numbers differ from Arc in the detail. Specifically what is the significance of the PDFR and PDER parts after the style and size code?

I apologise for being a pain but as always in engineering the devil is in the detail and I don't want to waste my money!


Ha ha, you are not the only one Andrew. I was put off buying for two to three years!... It has been difficult to find a reliable and consistent source... especially for the inserts. Add to this, every manufacturer of shell mill wants you to buy inserts only from them for their holders... as explained before. I have gone through this several times, even with Sumitomo. To get a shell mill from them costs a small fortune... although it is high end CNC production stuff.

On our website, the dimensions given for the APMT and APKT inserts relate to the cutting edges, not the back of the insert (or pocket size).

Any variation in the geometry of the insert, i.e. relief angles, chip-breakers etc., as you would expect from inserts designed to cut different materials, would result in different dimensions. Still, all classed as ISO generic.

PDER – PDFR (ISO codes):
P = 90°
D = 15°
E = Rounded
F = Sharp
R = Right hand feed direction

The thickness can and will be different as you can see in this picture:


iso milling insert id table.jpg

Ketan at ARC.

31/12/2019 15:29:03
Posted by Andrew Johnston on 31/12/2019 11:59:16:

Ketan: Thanks for the update on the shell mill arbors. I'll wait until the new arbors are in stock. The inserts are supposed to be generic. Does this mean I can buy them from elsewhere (an industrial supplier) and they'll fit?

I plan to buy a 40, or 50mm, body for use on the Bridgeport and a 63mm body for use on the horizontal mill. I've already got an 80mm indexible shell mill for the horizontal. The mill has a 5hp motor so I hope to give the cutter a run for it's money in terms of DOC, WOC and chip load. The only limitation is that maximum spindle speed on the horizontal is 1200rpm.


Andrew: Yes, the inserts are supposed to be generic, and you can buy them from elsewhere, and they will fit. In the past we paid limited attention to 'indexable carbide endmills' as a product range.

There used to be a consistency issue because the previous maker insisted on supplying their indexable carbide endmills WITH inserts obtained by them. Sometimes the pockets in which the inserts sat were different from one batch to another, and to accommodate, the indexable carbide end mill maker would change the insert/source slightly, to accommodate. At the same time, the inserts which were sold separately, also changed slightly in dimensions from time to time. This was specifically the triangle type of inserts which were clamped, rather than the ones with a hole through the centre. So we discontinued that range about three or four years ago.

Thereafter, we went on a journey to source a better - consistent package. We settled on a specific maker of inserts who makes to international standards. It was interesting to see how they were made on the latest state of the art Swiss machines. The room in which these machines are housed is spotless, and one could eat off the floor. The only problem I found in this place was the toilets....eastern squat rather than western sit.

The new maker of the indexable carbide shell mills/end mills wanted to also supply us the carbide inserts.... in the same way as every other factory maker we visited. Their buying power from carbide insert makers is automatically high, so prices for inserts/replacements from them is lower than what I pay. Secondly, they will never buy from the manufacturer we use, because our makers prices are generally high in the market place, as they cater for the higher end industrial CNC production market. Generally, most shell mill/end mill makers will go for the cheapest insert supplier at the time of order.

So, even though inserts are generic, based on past experience, I insisted that the shell mill/end mill makers just make the product they are good at, being fully aware of the insert maker we are using, so that they can make sure that their pocket/mount is not deviated in any way, and so that there is no doubt about what we expect.

For the rest of what you have said, it will be interesting to see how you get on with the products once you get a chance.

Ketan at ARC.

31/12/2019 11:53:21
Posted by Andrew Johnston on 31/12/2019 11:47:44:
Posted by Ketan Swali on 30/12/2019 16:03:40:

.... generally using 1/2 the diameter of the cutter depending on DOC and material being cut, as discussed elsewhere by Jason and others.

There is a rule of thumb that says a width of cut of about half the cutter diameter is bad; it shock loads the teeth/inserts. Better to use less than a third, or more than two thirds.


Thank you Andrew... learned something new today yes

30/12/2019 16:03:40
Posted by Ron Laden on 30/12/2019 08:10:04:

I think my SX2 would cope with a 50mm cutter providing I kept the DOC down but I try to keep the mill within its limits and dont push it beyond.

The 25mm end mill works great so will continue with that and save the 50mm for when I upgrade to a larger mill.

In some way, you are correct in your understanding Ron. On the tests I did, the 50mm cutter worked fine on the SX2P with low DOC due to the higher torque setting/programming used for that particular brushless motor, at the higher speed range. Great for one pass light finishing/face mill cuts on materials which are less than 50mm wide.

In this respect, the key advantages of using the 50mm diameter shell mills for shallow/light cuts on the SX2P would be that as the shell mill has carbide inserts, it can be run fast, and with there being 4 inserts means you can feed upto 4 times faster than a single point fly cutter.... provided you can handle the faster manual feed rate... or run it on some kind of power feed.

For higher DOCs... say upwards of 1mm (based on material being cut), the 25mm end mill would be more useful for regular use on the SX2P.... generally using 1/2 the diameter of the cutter depending on DOC and material being cut, as discussed elsewhere by Jason and others. If the 50mm diameter shell mill is used for greater DOC, I would experiment with using 20% to 30% of the diameter, on this machine.

Fortunately and unfortunately, due to the higher torque programming, the 50mm cutter 'may do the job - based on material being cut' for DOC greater than 1mm on the SX2P. However, this could result in increased forces loosening various mechanical parts, which in turn could mean re-tightening gibs/spindle nut/s, or damaging machine/material being cut.

Using the full diameter of the 50mm cutter is definitely not recommended for the DOC greater than 0.5mm to 1.00mm on the SX2P.

Ketan at ARC.

30/12/2019 14:33:13

Hi Andrew,

Apologies for the delay. The new arbors are due in around 22nd January 2020.

The main difference between the new and the 'reduce to clear' rage is that the reduced to clear range have specially made screws to secure the shell mills to the arbors, rather than socket cap head type screws being used on the new range. Please see link to the spare screws.

The arbors in the 'reduced to clear' range will fit the shell mills, but in certain cases, the flange type screw head may need to be turned down, or you can replace it with 'normal' socket cap head screws.

Generally, makers of the shell mills are totally different from makers of the arbors. Makers of arbors really have no idea about which type/maker of shell mill is going to be used with their arbor. Both items being generic in their own way... to a certain extent. So, most of the time, the locking screws are either the flange type or general socket cap head screws.

With the new range, we managed to make the new arbor making factory 'talk - discuss' with the shell mill maker. The idea being to try and match the arbor screw fit with the shell mill. Although this is a new product range for us, long term aim is to try and get consistency, so we also got the shell mill maker to 'work - discuss' with the factory from whom we buy the inserts.

Ketan at ARC.

Thread: A Question on Bench Blocks
26/12/2019 19:41:50
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 26/12/2019 19:29:36:

I thought, though I may be wrong, that someone had definitely shown the 'wonky' holes derived from the needs of gunsmiths rather than being sloppy construction or drawing?


Yes, Clive and Speedy did. But some people are finding it difficult to accept that explanation, especially as gunsmiths is less likely to be a hobby in which one participates in U.K./Europe, and also as Staratts original patent shows the holes to be centered in the vee.

Ketan at ARC.

Thread: New Mill - Starter Tooling
26/12/2019 19:34:24
Posted by Andrew Johnston on 26/12/2019 11:59:00:
Posted by JasonB on 26/12/2019 07:01:40:

You can get a nice shade of blue steel swarf with those that even Andrew would be happy with.

I have a new method for assessing swarf temperature; it's called the oh beep test. If a bit of swarf gets on your hand and you say oh beep then the swarf is hot enough and you're making the cutter work for it's living.

I know the feeling Andrew... I was going through the same when I was testing them on several small and large machines.

Normally, members of my team stand well back when I do these tests, especially as I have your earlier comments in mind about how you like to run them. It got even more funny when first the visiting SIEG engineer saw what I was doing, moved back him selve, and making sure his G.M. also moved back whilst explaining to the G.M. that he thought I was stupid and crazy and how this could kill the SX3.5DZP which I was testing at the time. It got even more funny (not), when I saw the SIEG G.M. go in deeper than I did, and we all moved back... until it stalled and dug in. Their engineer was less than happy with both of us. angel

Although the process was good to understand the limitations of a machine, 'abusing' any machine is not something I would recommend for people to do.

Ketan at ARC.

Thread: A Question on Bench Blocks
26/12/2019 19:08:09
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 26/12/2019 18:02:48:

Posted by Bazyle on 26/12/2019 17:31:00:



I wonder if it has wonky holes as they were originally suppliers to clockmakers.


From the photo in your link ... it would appear so.
[ if by ‘wonky’ you mean offset ]


As the one in your link is from Chronos, it is likely to be from an Indian company which makes for SOBA, and if so, the smaller holes in the vee are likely to be centered.

The block which ARC used to supply two years ago, with the offset were made for the U.S. market by a Chinese maker against a specific drawing given to them by the American buyer, as explained before.

The Indian made one cost approximately 50% less to buy then the Chinese made one. I am unable to comment on quality or material comparison other than to say that S.O.D. seems to be okay with the SOBA one he has.. please see his post on first page of this thread: 24/12/2019 13:57:19

At £15.00 post paid including delivery and VAT - Chronos - eBay price, it seems good value for money, especially as the main cost is in dispatch for a product which weighs approximately 750 grams.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 26/12/2019 19:09:59

25/12/2019 13:15:31

The discussion on this thread has been very educational. Some great ideas, explanation and links, for which I am very grateful.

I was, and still am uncertain if ARC will re-introduce this product. If we do, I will take on board what has been said when deciding what to do.

Thank you once again, and Merry Christmas to you all.

Ketan at ARC.

24/12/2019 15:21:45

After reading Clive Fosters explanation and seeing the drawing on SpeedyBuilders link, it is making more sense as to why the maker we were buying from makes them the way he does.... especially considering that he predominantly makes for the American market.

Bazyl: I had 6 pieces returned from a batch of 300pcs. based on the comment you made. However, it would be wrong to presume that the product was made incorrectly. I raised the question via this thread to get some explanation, which I now have. The maker we purchased from has been making this block in this way for a specific U.S. dealer for a very long time. The only reason we stopped buying was because there was no certainty on delivery. Our demand is low, and we have to wait to fit in with a high volume purchase... which only the U.S. could give.

Plasma: Thank you for the photograph of the block you have from STARRETT. Looking at the photo, it gives an impression that the vee groove on the left is narrow (with larger hole), and wide on the right (with smaller hole)?...similar to SpeedyBuilders link?.

S.O.D.: Thank you for the original patent details. After reading the various comments, I would suggest that this product has been modified/ or developed futher perhaps? to meet the demands of the U.S. importers market.

Thank you all for your contribution.

Ketan at ARC.

24/12/2019 11:23:23

A question for those who may know the answer...

About two years ago, ARC used to sell a product described as 'Precision Bench Block', as shown in the picture below:

bench block.jpg

It is an imperial size 3" in diameter, with nine oversized holes ranging from 1/8" to 5/8". The block is hardened and ground steel, ground vee groove to accommodate round stock.

If you have a look at the top view of the drawing below, two of the holes are located in the vee groove, but they are not center to the vee. One of the holes is 6.6mm in diameter, and the other is 3.7mm in diameter (yes I know I am stating metric measurements here.. because that is how they are made). Anyone know the exact reason why their positioning is the way it is?

block drawing.jpg

There is no fault in the original drawing/specification for this product. This is exactly how it has been specified by an American importer, many moons ago.

Some people refer to this block as a jewellers block, others refer to it as a block for gunsmithing. For engineering, I would suggest that it is a great support when drifting out pins and drilling small parts, but I am unable to figure out why the positioning of the holes are the way they are in the vee groove.

I am unable to find an explanation.

Ketan at ARC.

Thread: ARC Catalogue No.11
28/11/2019 15:58:50
Posted by ega on 28/11/2019 11:11:23:

If John Stevenson failed with the stub drills then I clearly have no chance!

PS I wasn't quite clear whether the 127 gear comes as standard with the SC4?

Re stub drills... you never know

127 gear comes as standard with the SC4.

Ketan at ARC.

27/11/2019 16:00:59

Nick: Glad to read that the subscription copies are getting through.

Andrew: Ron possibly/hopefully gave you a good link

Vidar: All I can do is apologise. Original plan was to send the catalogues out with all subscribers of MEW including overseas, but the people involved in overseas subscriptions were unable to accommodate on this occasion. In a way, it was a good thing, because costs to send out with MEW to U.K. subscribers and retail outlets have increased heavily since we last did this exercise in late 2016. We did consider sending the catalogue out to overseas customers ourselves, but at present we are unable to get the right deal which we seek with Royal Mail/fulfilment centres, so we are having to charge for handling and postage. If it helps, we are happy to send a catalogue out to you with your next order. You can order it with any other items you order.

Ketan at ARC.,

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