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Member postings for Ketan Swali

Here is a list of all the postings Ketan Swali has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Afternoon All
13/10/2019 23:42:25

Sorry, I forgot to add, current brushless machines from competitors are NOT the same as those made by SIEG. Do read this thread if you feel a need to understand further.

Apologies to Nick for butting in on this thread. I just needed to clarify ARCs position.

Ketan at ARC.

13/10/2019 23:29:10
Posted by Lainchy on 13/10/2019 21:31:10:

I did the Axminster Small lathe engineering course, and they used the SC4's for machining. I was very impressed with those, although I believe they are about £1800 inc VAT. Arc Euro do the same SC4 badged Sieg for less. I believe these are brushless. Quality control.....??? Maybe Axminster do some hence the steeper price... don't know if Arc do similar. These two are 210 swing, so slightly smaller.

Hi Lainchy,

Just for clarity:

1. SC4 is made by SIEG, so original maker badge SIEG. Axminster sells the same machine badged as Axminster - SIEG. It is part of the requirement by SIEG.

2. No importer, be it Axminster, ARC, or other does QC in the U.K. regardless of what impression is given by marketing.

3. SC4 is brushless, available in two bed lengths. ARC sells the longer bed length only.

4. ARC has been selling ORIGINAL SIEG made machines for a longer period of time than Axminster. ARC received the first SC4 in the world for testing, which ARC rejected at that time for technical reasons. After the technical issues were addressed, ARC added the SC4 to their range.

5. The reasons why Axminster price may be high could be due to their overheads, and their ability to offer 3 years guarantee, where as ARC only offers a 1 year guarantee. Also, ARC concentrates on a limited number of models from the SIEG range, based on various factors. Generally, based on model, the quantity of stock which ARC carries for each of these models is higher than most of SIEGs distributors around the world. As a result, ARCs purchase price from SIEG may be different - lower than others. Also, ARC buys direct from SIEG, without involvement of one or two additional Chinese buying agents/trading companies working on behalf of certain importers.

6. ARC is involved directly with certain marketing and certain R&D at the SIEG factory. ARC is only interested in working on machines with the SIEG factory, rather than a variety of factories. This allows ARC to work with one set of working ideas from one source, concentrating only on one variety of gremlins. This close co-operation helps to develop long term relations and understanding.. even though strained at times... with agreeing to disagree on occasions.

7. History: The word 'Super' was used by SIEG to promote machines with higher specification than the base model. Unfortunately, competitors - especially in the mini-lathe brigade decided to use/abuse this word as a marketing tool to promote lower specifications of their own machines. At this point, sales for SIEG started to suffer because of competitor marketing abuse of the word 'Super'. This was a marketing problem which both ARC and SIEG had to solve. One day, looking at Little Machine Shop's website in the U.S., ARC noticed that they had abbreviated 'Super C3' to 'SC3. Looking at this, ARC had lengthy discussion with the marketing team at SIEG to adopt this format, moving away from the word 'Super', and putting the focus onto 'HiTorque' and 'Brushless'. For this reason, you see the terminology SC or SX.. followed by the model number... with further focus on HiTorque and Brushless.

8. Other than Little Machine Shop in the U.S., ARC carries the highest range of SIEG spares in the world.

9. If you subscribe to the MEW magazine, you will see a beginners series of articles sponsored by ARC over the past 12 to 14 months, written by Neil Wyatt based on the SC4 lathe, and by Jason Ballamy on the SX2.7 mill. These series were commissioned with input by ARC (based on questions ARC has come across over the years) to help new people coming into the hobby, how to use various tools on a lathe or in a mill. Now a days, most people entering this hobby have plenty of enthusiasm, but very limited knowledge or practical experience of 'making things' because many have had no or little training in schools, collages or universities.The series helps those who are unable to attend a practical course for one reason or another.

I see these kind of questioning over price every one or two years as new people enter the hobby or this forum. On another thread, I even noticed a suggestion that Axminsters price may be higher because somehow their same specification machine was built better from them, or, at one time, I saw the marketing statement 'V.2' to justify the higher price for a machine which was the same as sold by ARC. If a competitor is selling a machine made specifically by SIEG, of the same specification model number, then the build quality is the same as one made for ARC.

In future, if such comments are made, I will be grateful if the poster of such a comment can be directed to this thread, as it would be wrong to suggest that a like for like SIEG machine sold by ARC is different from a competitor.

I request every ones understanding on this issue with the greatest of respect. smiley

Ketan at ARC.

Thread: Issue 286 - Bridgeport Article
30/09/2019 16:50:17

Hi Andrew,

I can and do understand your frustration. Once something is in print, it feels like that is what you wanted to say and it feels like the end of the world at the time you first read it. But rest assured, this feeling of frustration will pass hopefully over time.

On another thread, you said:

"Soooooo, we should be offering ill-considered advice based on things we know nothing about? smile o

Andrew"

Over the many years of working with these publications I have often come across such situations (although different from your current situation), where the writer of the article is simply offering ill-considered advice based on things he knows very little about. This has resulted in some loss of business, or more detailed explanation having to be offered by ARC to deal with the crap which has been printed.... especially in the ME, but less in the MEW.

If it is any consolation, your frustration is without financial loss. Hope that thought helps you get through your particular frustration. Keep writing as its all a good read. Life is too short for frustrations.

Ketan at ARC.

30/09/2019 16:14:19

Andrew,

You just cant get the staff nowadays teeth 2

At least your article got printed... Neil totally forgot to print the article on the beginners series for lathe work!sadsmiley

Ketan at ARC

Thread: Syil X3 CNC Spindle Failed
12/09/2019 18:13:42

Mike,

SIEG control boards are designed for use with SIEG machines.

Unfortunately, they will fail to work with SYIL machines, and for these reasons ARC would be unable to supply any SIEG spares for use with SYIL machines.

I would suggest you find a solution from the supplier of your machine. Apologies for being unable to assist.

Ketan at ARC

Thread: Home Workshop Site
10/09/2019 11:54:26
Posted by 9fingers on 10/09/2019 08:40:06:

+1 on that Jason.

I noticed some dodgy typing in his post too indicating that he might still have a way to go before firing on all cylinders.

Yes indeed Bob.

Ketan.

08/09/2019 11:12:04

Adam is on the mend... progress is slow.

Ketan.

Thread: 4 jaw Self centering chuck recommendations please
05/09/2019 15:19:26

The Indian 'Zither' made chucks were/are better than the Chinese ones which ARC sells. However, at time of earlier discussion with Jason, Zither were quoting long lead times, and later they decided to stop production on smaller sizes, concentrating instead on 160mm+ sizes for which they have large orders. As a result, ARC is slowly clearing the Zither stock it has.

ARC has also reduced prices for its Chinese chucks, sourced from two different Chinese factories. Once this stock is cleared (don't know when), a new range will be offered.

Ketan at ARC.

Thread: Help choosing a Chinese lathe please
03/09/2019 15:48:27

Hi Neil,

I understand.

The SC2 and SC3 are both belt drive, with brushless motor. They are far more expensive for us to buy than the brushed gear drive being offered by Amadeal.

As a result, the price we state are currently the best we can offer. For SIEG machines, they are probably the cheapest in the world... at present.

If you want, you could consider to buy Starter Set 1 or Starter Set 2, along with the machine, which could save you some money.

Please be aware that prices are subject to change without notice. Currently, with the volatility on foreign exchange, some prices are increasing. At the same time, due to certain competition, prices for some consumables are falling, as suggested in our September Newsletter sent out earlier today to subscribers to our newsletter. However, price reductions is not something we are seeing at present on machines. Please accept our apologies. If the situation changes, one way or the other, this will be reflected on our website.

Ketan at ARC.

03/09/2019 14:39:22

Neil Mc,

It all comes down to budget and perceived value for money.

Mechanically, most of the mini-lathe family will be similar, with small differences in assembly QC.

Amadeal have a 100mm flange as standard for lathe chuck, although ARC, and engineers at SIEG do not agree with the idea, based on load over length of headstock casting support, combined with load on electronics. This is a matter of opinion which can and has been debated over time. This is down to customer choice. Wherever 80mm chucks are fitted, 100mm chucks and backplates are available, only because some customers want them, but not something which we recommend.

The cheapest should be brushed motor versions of mini-lathe. At the cheapest level, there will be no overload protection on board. So, probability of the control board/ motor getting damaged increase under an overload situation (similar to C2)... especially for a beginner. The higher level brushed motor versions (C3) will have overload protection on the control board. In all brushed versions, the fai lsafe is normally the high/low plastic gears. Some people prefer to change them to metal gears, increasing the probability of damaging the control board/motor under an overload event.

Then come the brushless motor family which are now a days sold in two ways...:

A.: gear drive - with high low gears and a 'small' brushless motor - similar to the one in your opening link and which is probably the same as the Warco brushless offering... sold as Superior or Super respectively. The power stated is probably/possible 'input power', 'open to question' as the motor appears to be too small in physical size to be output wattage, because if it was output, gears would quickly break!!. These are not made or supplied by SIEG. See following threads for further understanding:

Warco Super mini lathe (probably same as Chesters Superior lathe) See the size of the motor. It seems to look smaller than what a 500W brushless motor of this type should look like. Also read this brushless motor thread.

B: Belt Drive - SIEG models SC2 and SC3. These are 500W output. The physical size of this brushless motor is 130mm (overall length) or 100mm motor length x 80mm x 80mm. See picture here . There is no hi/low gear to break in these models. The torque control comes from programing on the control board, rather than mechanical gear drive. Till date, competitors of SIEG are unable to achive this with their brushless motor/control board setup.

Strictly speaking, based on the above, the SC2 and SC3 should be the most expensive.

Competitor marketing is selective in use of words 'Super'... 'Superior'... other; and in certain ebay cases, the machines are made to 'look bigger'... often plugged by certain members on here, but on close examination, it is just a standard mini-lathe made to look bigger with addition of sheet metal, and looking at the electrical content soon proves that one is dealing with a product which could be considered to be even cheaper than a low specked mini-lathe.

Most manufacturers are guilty of failing to specify what they mean by power, be it for input or output. Certain distributors also exaggerate the power stated, but can still justify this as some form of 'input' power'. SIEG always states output power which is lower than input power. However, we know that some companies who buy from SIEG want them to state their own version of the meaning of power, as it is their own company brand interpretation of power.

Unfortunately, presentation of such facts does come across as a 'sour grapes' issue, leaving the potential buyer to make up his or her own decision, which can still prove to be good, bad or ugly.

Having said all of the above, based only on price, the Amadeal second package does appear to be good value for money, for what it is.

Ketan at ARC.

Thread: Home Workshop Site
21/08/2019 10:28:21

Thank you everyone,

All the kind messages will be relayed to him.

Ketan.

19/08/2019 16:39:23

Many on here are aware that Adam Stevenson (son of late John Stevenson) runs the homeworkshop.org.uk site.

Unfortunately, Adam was admitted to hospital on 4th August. Although at present I am unable to go into detail, he is likely to be in the hospital for the next three to four weeks. So, the homeworkshop site is not being updated at present.

If any members on this forum are members on other forums where the subject of inactivity of the Homeworkshop.org.uk site is raised, please feel free to share this information.

If there is any update, I will post on here.

Ketan at ARC.

 

Edited By Ketan Swali on 19/08/2019 16:40:25

Thread: New Milling Machine
13/08/2019 16:03:41
Posted by David Watson 3 on 13/08/2019 15:44:19:

The matter of DRO,s is seemed a good idea at the time. I now start to think are they really something I need.?.

Have a read of Ron Ladens experiences on this thread.

Ketan at ARC.

13/08/2019 15:12:07

Hi David,

The WM14 may complement the size of the mini-lathe. In terms of physical size, spindle taper, and power, it is totally different from an SX2.7. The SX2.7 would compliment an SC4 lathe, which is bigger than a mini-lathe.

WM14 - Spindle taper MT2, INPUT POWER 500w

SX2.7 - Spindle taper R8, OUTPUT POWER 750w - brushless DC motor, physically bigger than a WM14

If metric or imperial is an issue for you, you are best off considering an imperial machine, if you are inclined to think in imperial measures.

If you want to see the physical size, you are welcome to visit ARC and have a look.

Ketan at ARC.

 

Edited By Ketan Swali on 13/08/2019 15:14:10

Thread: R8 spindle advice required
29/07/2019 08:21:33

After reading Neil Lickfords post, and combining with a niggle I had about point 3 of my earlier post, I realised that I needed to correct myself...

As Neil Lickford said, the pin is a location pin, rather than a shear pin. The fact that it could shear if a tool jammed is just an event which can take place, rather than it being a fail safe shear pin. My apologies for creating this misunderstanding.

Ketan at ARC.

28/07/2019 19:42:41
Posted by old mart on 28/07/2019 17:53:31:

I notice that Pete Rimmer mentions that John Stevenson did not include the pin when he made the custom R8 spindle. It's a great pity that John is no longer with us to explain why, he was a great engineer.

There were a few reasons why JS did not include the pin...

1. Depending on who you got the R8 collet from, the slot width and depth could be different. This issue has been debated over time. The obvious issue being.. will the pin in the spindle allow the R8 collet to fit. If not, some modification needed to be made to the pin or the collet. All of this had been experienced by him, us and others over the years.

2. In certain mills, depending on 'the event' of how and when the pin sheared, the back part of the pin could fall inside the spindle assembly and get lodged into a moving part such as the bearing, and in-turn create further damage.

3. According to John, the original Bridgeport R8 design with a slot was designed as such, to be a fail safe. The pin could/should shear as a fail safe to avoid damage to other parts of the spindle assembly, if a heavy duty cut jammed, for example, and allow the collet to slip.

JS came across quite a few 'Bligeports'/clones over the years, many of which no longer had they original pins.. possibly sheared/breaking as a result of impatience by the user when introducing an R8 tool into the spindle.

It is true also as per MichaelGs observations that in such an event, sometimes the whole assembly could still go tight, making it more difficult to take R8 tooling out... although we have not seen this happen too often.. thankfully.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 28/07/2019 19:44:29

Thread: ARC NCIH Part Off Blade
25/07/2019 17:32:34

Emgee,

This is what the Sumitomo insert removal tool looks like:

sumi insert remover.jpg

sumi insert remover how to use.jpg

Thread: Advice for a mini milling machine
24/07/2019 08:49:38

Generally, now days we say... use the machine as it comes out of the box. Make small adjustments and changes to the machines, if required, to meet your specific requirements, after using the machine, and based on your ability.

Ketan at ARC.

24/07/2019 08:42:34

Alex,

The SIEG SX1LP reaches 5000rpm, and will happily do the job.

The issue is the user, rather than the machine. If your experience is low, the learning curve for adjusting to 'your specific requirement' will be high. If your budget is low, the same statement applies. This machine, in our opinion is better than it nearest comparable Proxxon, if properly adjusted.

If you are into perceptions of accuracy, go with the Proxxon. Many clock makers do! (meant as an observation rather than an insult). ARC has turned away many potential customers from the horology hobby custom base, even though many new potential buyers have been directed to us by the horological institute. Over the years we have found that their general understanding of engineering is low, expectations and understanding of accuracy for the price, are outside the scope of what ARC is able to offer.

Having said all of the above, we do have experienced clock makers who have various ilk of small SIEG mcahines from X0, SX1L, and SX1LP, who are happy with their purchase. But they have experience and have made adjustments to the machines to meet their specific requirements.

The X0 is discontinued. The SX1L is soon to be discontinued (hence the very low price), as we are concentrating on the brushless machines now. The SX1L will not reach the 4000rpm+. All machines run fine out of the box. Accuracy is directly linked with user expectations and ability.

John Haines's comments are on the right track.

Ketan at ARC.

Thread: ARC NCIH Part Off Blade
24/07/2019 07:50:10
Posted by XD 351 on 24/07/2019 04:25:04:

I destroyed a few insert blades doing some testing in the thread linked below but i did find some interesting things out about parting off . I was using the hare and forbes units ( toolmaster ) but i won’t be forking out that amount of cash for a new blade anytime soon - not from them anyway ! I believe Ausee are linked to ARC in some way ? If so i may try their holders and tips .

**LINK**

Just spoke with Steven at AUSEE. His parting off blades and inserts come from the same place as ours.

Just like inserts, there are several grades of holders. ARC has tested holders from various sources from Japan, India and China, and settled on one specific maker from China.

Generally, there are good and bad makers of the 'black finish' ones. The black finish ones are usually more brittle (That in itself does not mean it is bad).These usually snap when there is failure. The 'bad' factory imitations are of seriously poor quality.

The Sumitomo ones are black finish, made from a form of spring steel. It allows for some give, but has proprietary inserts in the same way as ISCAR. So, the GTNs don't fit it. Price of Sumitomo holders are high, and more suitable for high production environment. I am guessing that the ISCAR one is in similar range.

So, as a result, ARC settled on the factory we use. The brown finish holders which ARC and AUSEE sell are made from (Chinese spec.) GB 60SI2MN Steel - a high quality alloy spring steel. It costs more than the general 'black finish' stuff. It does not mean that it is better or worse than the black holder. it just has 'more give' before bending or snapping, falling more in line with the Sumitomo idea, without the big cost.

Just like the black holders, there are very cheap brown finish holders, which are poor imitations, not made from the grade of steel specified above. But if they suit the users purpose in the hobby environment, and it works, the user is non the wiser. Some sellers using the auction platform state that their holder is made from a specific grade of steel. But how is the user going to check?, and does he really know, understand or care if it works for him/her?. There is nothing wrong with that, but 'with respect' when they talk about it in YouTube videos or on forums, how much do they really know about it? How much is true, false, money laundering?

Ketan at ARC.

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