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Member postings for Ketan Swali

Here is a list of all the postings Ketan Swali has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: SC4 Lathe chuck and Headstock size
04/04/2021 16:33:31

Hi Joseph,

Yes I have been following your project... on and off. Always like to see different approaches.

I have put all the SC4 rough and read pictures with measurements in the album: SC4 HEADSTOCK. Hope the information will help you to decide your direction smiley

Ketan at ARC

04/04/2021 10:55:50

Hi Joseph,

Surprised to see an EMCO aficionado ask a question about an SC4 headstock. I must be dreaming teeth 2

I am spray painting part of the fence today. If I finish early, I will go over to the warehouse to get you the measurements you seek from the display model.

In the mean time, I am unsure about how many of these links you have seen...

Notes:

  1. Using above, you can fit a 125mm Chinese chuck to the lathe, and it will be well supported with the TRB on the front. The bore through the spindle is limited to 20mm.
  2. the slim chuck which Neil refers to is of Indian origin. you can fit that too after making a new register and mounting holes (PCD) to fit a modified backplate. Register and PCD on an Indian 125mm chuck is different from Chinese.
  3. You are correct in asking the information about width of headstock, to check how well the spindle is supported. In my personal opinion, it should be longer to support a 125mm chuck, even though it would be supported by a TRB on the front. The TRB on the front is a 'slim' bearing 32007.... better for speed rather than load, but not a big issue for this size of lathe.
  4. The speed and torque are controlled by correct programming of a chip on the circuit board, which in turn controls the brushless motor. So control is more electronic, rather than mechanical (this is the simplest way I can explain the set-up). So the mechanical load on the spindle due to increase in weight of a 125mm chuck will make the set-up perform differently from the standard set-up.

So, although the set-up works, as it does for Jim, and although ARC sell the backplate to enable use of a 125mm chuck of one description or another, and although it is well supported mechanically with a TRB; considering the the headstock width, and electronic control of speed and torque, as far as I am concerned, it would suggest the use of 125mm chucks to be limited to short periods of time.

Ketan at ARC

Thread: Excellent Chinese Chuck
28/03/2021 22:07:32

If you read Joseph Nochi’s (who’s views I respect) experience on this forum about Sanou Chuck which he purchased via a marketplace platform a few years ago, they were less than complementary.

So, in early 2019 a decision was made to visit the factory to see for our selves. My wife and I on behalf of ARC, along with representatives of two other organisations who purchase lathe chucks for various customers around the world, went for days meeting.

SANOU is a well organised family run business with two brothers at the head. They are an extremely alert pair. Both have their figure on the pulse in terms of engineering, finance, marketing and most importantly politics (subject in which they take strong national pride).

As a result, they will produce whatever the customer wants, at whatever price level, provided large MOQs are provided. They do not keep any stock, working on a 'just in time' system. The level of advanced automation is one of the best I have seen. Their major production mostly for larger size chucks is made of consumption within China. Overruns or rejects sold off to whoever wants them.

The quality is very much dependant on what the customer wants to pay for the price. So, you will see different grades of the same product in different market places around the world, all with the SANOU mark.

ARC purchases the quality it is happy with, at the price it pays to its manufacturing supplier. At present, the supplier for its Chinese origin lathe chucks is SANOU. We pay a premium for our branded product for a specific specification, along with the two other organisations as mentioned above.

- Technically, the K**-###* mentioned by Jason above, refers to a standard Chinese numbering system. This is what is supposed to be used by ALL Chinese lathe chuck manufacturers for a given size/type, originally established in the old Russian collaboration days.
- Around four to five factories were established by the communist state in four corners of China, led by Huhhot and Yantai - the original set-ups, followed by their engineers being sent to the other corners on the country to establish lathe chuck factories following the same systems.

Now a days, although the numbering system remains, several lathe chuck founding factories have collapsed, either financially or politically, leading to new set-ups rising from the ashes. One always has to keep an eye on these lathe chuck factories, as it is difficult to be sure about when changes will take place.

Keeping all of the above issues in mind, ARC made a decision to sell Chinese origin lathe chucks in its own brand. We don't know if and when we have to change the manufacturing supplier, but at present we are happy and grateful with SANOUs ability to supply us what we need. We will not supply lathe chucks under the SANOU brand as far as possible (unless we have no choice), because we are aware of the different grades available, especially for the smaller sized chucks, all of which carry the SANOU brand.

Ady1: Keyless drill chucks are a very good example of after market product which ARC buys from a different source other than SANOU. The quality for this product from SANOU fails to meet our needs. There are sub-contract factories to SANOU for this product range, branded SANOU, but outside of their QC, because the price paid to them for this product is seriously low for them to consider production in-house. Having said this, many machine manufacturers will use such drill chucks as well as key type chucks procured through SANOU directly or through wholesalers. Price paid by ARC for keyless chucks from another location in China is far higher than the offering from SANOU. Similarly, back in 2019, I am aware that ROHM procured its components for such products from elsewhere.

Bob Stevenson: Fuerda is a different factory from SANOU, based in a different location.

SOD Dave: After visiting the state of the art SANOU factory, I would suggest it is difficult to make decent chucks. I have visited several lathe chuck factories in China as well as in India. Yes, I would agree that there is a high level of politics, especially associated with this factory, and for this reason it always helps to be friendly with more than one maker, for reasons stated above . As far as the Chinese and Indians are concerned, they are both extremely focused on their own national pride, with a healthy measure of sabrer-rattling at each other. Whilst is is very true that the current generation on Chinese and Indians are extremely confident of their own abilities - rightly as well as wrongly, probability of India entering into a 'REAL' healthy relationship with China at present are low.

Even though SANOU sends a high volume of variable grade chucks to India, the demand for locally produced chucks within India is far higher, mainly due to national pride, and SANOU has a very small market share.

Ketan at ARC

Thread: New mill vice which one
27/03/2021 17:24:26

Hi Stevie,

Thank you for posting the videos. Was pleasantly surprised smiley

The late John Stevenson would have been happy to see your response to the vice. What you see with the ARC offering is thanks to his input during factory visit, many moons ago... e.g. the button segment, and the harder wearing ways. These two elements are changes he implemented before we added these vices to our range, and in this respect, these are different to the common clones available in the market place.

Since his visit to the factory, it has grown into a far bigger and more automated operation, which I know he would have enjoyed to see if he was still around.

During the video you mentioned my name and you weren't sure if I am the owner of ARC. The answer is, I am a Director of ARC, and my wife was also made a director a few years ago. U.K. law suggests that if there is only one Director and if he/she dies, technically, the business has to stop immediately and the bank can stop provision of services.

Even though I am the owner of ARC, our Ian Davidson runs the business now a days. 😊

Ketan at ARC

Edited By Ketan Swali on 27/03/2021 17:33:17

Thread: Chinese End Mill Grinders
16/03/2021 16:55:03
Posted by T.B on 16/03/2021 16:46:37:
Posted by Ketan Swali on 16/03/2021 16:14:29:

As a result of the demonstrations which JS did at the shows, we sold many of these grinders to end users, including business users and clubs. Unfortunately, demand for these grinders has reduced heavily due to inability to demonstrate, so they will be discontinued after the last few are sold.

Ketan at ARC.

Hi Ketan

Will you continue to sell replacment grinding wheels for these machines ?

I have been tempted to buy one for a while but if replacment wheels are going to be a problem then that would be an important factor for me to consider

Edited By T.B on 16/03/2021 16:46:59

Yes Indeed, we will continue to sell the replacement grinding wheels for a while, even though based on on JSs experience with them, they really do take a long time to wear, and we have very low demand/requirement for replacement wheels, even by business users.

Ketan at ARC.

16/03/2021 16:14:29

Just a late addition to this thread.

The EMG-12 which ARC sells was something which the late John Stevenson wanted us to promote. If you would like to read the debate in-depth to get a clearer picture, I would suggest reading this thread.

A couple of years before JS passed away, he sold his Clarkson as well as his original Deckel and clone, mainly due to the time required to set-up those machines/foot-print, as John was preparing to move workshop from his original big space to a much smaller new place. Nothing wrong with them (not disrespect meant), it was just that he wanted to re-sharpen his end-mills quickly... on the ends, and he wasn't really worried about re-sharpening on the sides. There were usually queues at the shows from people who brought him their end mills to be re-sharpened... for free or donation to charity.

As a result of the demonstrations which JS did at the shows, we sold many of these grinders to end users, including business users and clubs. Unfortunately, demand for these grinders has reduced heavily due to inability to demonstrate, so they will be discontinued after the last few are sold.

Ketan at ARC.

Thread: tapered roller bearings
16/03/2021 15:45:22
Posted by Henry Rancourt on 12/03/2021 15:19:49:

I emailed many distributors, in the US, UK and Japan and Timken, SKF and Nachi technical support, and all told me they only make tapered roller bearings in the lowest tolerance class like 0 or K. It seems there is one company, Gamet, that makes them but cost is around $1000 for one bearing. So i'm considering using angular contact or deep groove ball bearings. My research has started.

Hi Henry,

If your Prazi SD300 uses tapered roller bearing (TRB) for the spindle, you should use TRB as a replacement. As mentioned before by Hopper, most modern general purpose TRBs made by the likes of Koyo/Nachi for example will be fine for your purpose.

Note the following, which you may wish to consider:

  • the inner and out rings of TRBs are offset, making the overall width of the bearing wider than angular contact bearing (ACB) and deep groove ball bearing (BB)
  • if the existing bearing is a TRB, it will sit in a particular way on the spindle and/or shoulder of the head casting. replacing with a ACB or BB will mean introduction or removal of spacers to take up the difference in space on the spindle.
  • TRBs are made up of rollers which make full contact with the inner surface of the inner/outer ring. ACBs and BBs have balls which do not have full contact with most of the inner surface of the rings. As a result, TRBs offer the highest accuracy, lowest speed after pre-load. ACBs allow pre-load with marginally lower accuracy than TRBs, but allowing higher speeds than TRBs after pre-load. BBs are not really made to deal too much with pre-load, but provide the most speed with lower accuracy. Speed in not really relevant for your lathe.
  • You may have seen super precision ACBs with light, Medium or Heavy pre-load, which will be a lot more expensive than general purpose TRBs. However, such ACBs are designed for use in high speed spindles usually running at around 10,000 rpm+, and of very little use for your purpose.

Ketan at ARC

Thread: Axminster tools to discontinue their engineering courses.
16/03/2021 15:15:47
Posted by JasonB on 15/03/2021 17:24:31:
Posted by Mick B1 on 15/03/2021 14:40:35:

Agreed, and it behoves the machinery distributors to consider the possibilities of supplying it if they want the hobby side of their business to prosper.

One of the reasons why ARC spent a considerable amount of money supporting the Milling and lathework for beginners series in MEW and published the subsequent book. For example it does tell you how to fit ER collets into the nut unlike any of the old books where they were not even heard of.

In the 25 odd years I've been using Axminster for woodworking I have only felt their engineering side to be a very small amount of their business so may well not be running that side of things down as it was never very high up.

The books are designed for people who are unable to do a coarse for various reasons, such as cost, unable to travel, wanting to do their own thing in their own time. This represents a far bigger market then those limited to being able to attend a coarse.... even though hands-on touch and feel of machine and tools is a great thing.

Being able to offer the books has made life a lot more easier for ARC when dealing with new customers, as we are able to direct them to the books which cover answers to most of the questions they seek relating to use of machines and related tooling. In turn, this has helped sales of machines and tools across the range too.

Sales of the books have been steady in the U.K. and across Europe, and to a certain extent in Australia. Sales in the U.S. have been a lot more than expected, probably due to the geographical size of the market.

Before commissioning and sponsoring the series in the MEW, (followed by publication of the books), ARC had considered running coarse on site, but abandoned the idea due to various reasons.

To the best of my knowledge, a long time ago (don't know when), Axminster Tools did woodworking and metalworking tools. Then they dropped out of the metalworking hobby market, and re-introduced the metalworking machines in around 2006/7. Since then, they have been expanding their range in this area.

Ketan at ARC.

Thread: tapered roller bearings
10/03/2021 06:13:12
Posted by Hopper on 10/03/2021 05:46:57:

You might try some of the quality Japanese suppliers like Koyo and Naachi. Or the German FAG?

But, depending what you are doing with your little Prazi lathe, the standard grade bearings will probably do the job.

I agree.

Ketan @ ARC

Thread: SX2P Gas Strut Modification Issue?
02/03/2021 16:28:31
Posted by Dr_GMJN on 01/03/2021 22:54:32:

BTW, In future, I'm considering lining the z-axis dovetails with Trelleborg slideway strips, to try and reduce the sticking issue.; there might be enough gib strip adjustment to fit the thinner version.

Do you mean the use of Turcite?... We have used it in the past on a very small number/selected few X3, SX3, KX3 and SX4, during a re-build process.

If that is what you are thinking of doing, depending on how you intend to approach the subject, the process is a little complicated and time consuming, and unsure how useful it would be on an SX2, as never used it on any re-builds of this machine.

You are likely to consider machining of the gib - to which turcite is applied, along with possible machining of the head casting dovetail (to which turcite is applied), using a 55 deg. dovetail cutter (which is not an easily available cutter).

The Turcite strips are not very thin, and they need to be bonded using a good two-part epoxy. Once bonded, there will be high spots, which will need to be scraped, or milled flat. So, to some extent you will need the turcite to be thinker than where you intend to end up. How easy will it be to scrape or mill the turcite in the casting dovetail is something you have to consider/experiment with on sacrificial material before working on the main dovetails.

A chap called Tom Chapman introduced the late JS and I to the idea back in 2009 after carrying out the process on his KX3. It took us a while to experiment with it, and we tried it out after being shown how to do it properly by Birmingham Machine Tool Services - who used to use Turcite in the re-build process of Bridgeports. We used to purchase the Turcite from them. We re-built very few machines using Turcite, and it is a very good product, with great end results. However, as I said before, I am unsure about how useful it will be for your use.

If you want a pdf of Toms approach for his KX3, send me a pm with your email address and I will email it to you.

Ketan at ARC

Thread: Chinese lathe
26/02/2021 17:54:54
Posted by Pete. on 26/02/2021 17:35:39:
Posted by Chris Crew on 25/02/2021 23:58:43:

Edited By Chris Crew on 26/02/2021 00:00:24

I'll stick to engineering products, otherwise it's not relevant to this forum, compare Vertex products to Chinese products, there's a clear difference in quality control.

Please... let’s all calm down and keep our views moderated and polite.

Vertex is a Taiwan brand. A very high percentage of their products are generic - made in mainland China by sub-contract manufacturing . They just have good Q.C., stock holding and marketing.

Ketan at ARC

Thread: Magnetic v-blocks - how useful these are?
26/02/2021 12:18:28

Martin,

The quality of Indian magnetic stuff depends on maker. To the best of my knowledge, there is only one good maker near Delhi, but the probability of his stuff getting onto eBay is next to zero, because his product range is extremely expensive. There are plenty of small makers of magnetic V blocks in that region, but most are poorly made. The better makers are to be found in the south of India, such as in or near Puna, but again, very expensive, and selling on eBay would be outside their interest, as they are usually very busy working with big industry customers.

90%+ of eBay Indian sellers are extremely small traders similar to the one shown in Michaels G's link, with a small number being large stockists hiding behind different names for tax reasons, or to avoid conflict with their overseas agents/partners with whom they have territory distribution agreements which are made in their real name smiley. They buy two to four pieces at a time of a product from a maker, as and when an order comes in. The makers are usually small scale cottage industry operations, and they usually have stock of good, bad and rejects, which they are happy to sell on to the eBay sellers at different rates. The product may or may not meet your requirement.

ARCs magnetic V blocks come from China only and we are happy with the product we sell. However, regardless of the force of the magnet, I would generally agree with Michael Pools comments: ' I would be wary of anything but the lightest cuts on a mill, I think they are best for grinding, marking out and inspection tasks. '

If you wish to buy Indian, you would be better to look at supply from Chronos - Soba range. Soba have an inspection process, and what ever they reject goes back to the maker, and what is left with the maker ends up on eBay. At least, if you are not happy with the product, you can always return it to Chronos.

Ketan at ARC

 

Edited By Ketan Swali on 26/02/2021 12:21:19

Thread: Collet Chuck for my CL250M?
25/02/2021 11:42:23
Posted by Ian Mellors on 25/02/2021 09:05:58:

Couple of questions Ketan, I'd PM these but the answers may be useful to others

  1. Is there any machining to be done to the collet chuck for the C1 lathe or is it a straight fit?
  2. are fixing bolts/screws supplied? - it looks from the images that there are 3 tapped holes, whereas the stock 3 jaw chick comes with studs that fit through the spindle plate.

Thanks

Hi Ian,

It is a straight fit (possibly tight) onto the chuck flange/back plate (Part 45) on this diagram

You will need a rubber mallet, to remove/fit the chucks.

Fixing studs are not supplied. 3 x Fixing holes are tapped M6 as shown in the details table on this page

Basically, the general 'Chinese Standard' for the back female register on an 80mm 3-Jaw Self-Centring (S.C.) Chuck is 55mm - to enable it to fit onto a flange/backplate with the matching 55mm male register. Also, most such chucks are tapped M6.

So, the ER lathe collet chuck registers and PCDs are made to conform to the Chinese standards of 80mm, 100mm, 125mm lathe chucks.

You may be able to unscrew the studs from your standard 3-Jaw S.C. Chuck and use them with your ER 25 lathe collet chuck. As far as I can recall, the studs would be introduced from the back of the flange, and screwed into the body of the ER25 lathe collet chuck, in the same way as your existing arrangement with the 3-Jaw S.C. chuck. Note: the stud does not need to go all the way through the tapped hole, as long as the studs go in a reasonable amount to hold the collet chuck secure in place, and you feel comfortable. Alternatively, you make up your own arrangement with studs and nuts to meet your needs.

Ketan at ARC

Edited By Ketan Swali on 25/02/2021 11:44:38

23/02/2021 15:28:47
Posted by Ian Mellors on 23/02/2021 15:21:36:

Ah, now that's interesting. I do hope one day to get my hands on either the now discontinued CL251MH or Sealey SM2502B milli/drill attachment for the lathe, which has an MT2 taper ...

Unless you are limited for space, or you find one second hand - cheap which works, you would be better off looking at saving up for a SIEG SX1LP. .... It is more cost effective and better investment than getting an attachment for the lathe. The 'muti' is limited in its use.

Ketan at ARC.

23/02/2021 15:14:40

Hello Ian,

Your CL250M is a SIEG C1 lathe.

Consider getting one of these from ARC or from whoever you prefer.

The hole through your headstock spindle is 10mm diameter I think. So, this will allow you to hold stock up to 9.99mm through the spindle. Stock from 10mm to 16mm diameter can be held in the front (as cannot go through the spindle) using the appropriate ER25 collet..... Hope my explanation makes sense.

If you have an MT2 taper mill, then the MT2 milling collet chuck ER20 or ER25 would make sense, as it can be used in both the lathe and mill spindle.

Ketan at ARC.

Thread: Chester Conquest Mill
20/02/2021 19:46:10

Chris, perhaps parts of this article may help. To the best of my knowledge, your machine may be the old X2 mini-mill.
Also, if you search what you are looking for under X2 mini-mill, you will probably find more dismantling information.

Very broadly speaking, the X2 Mini-Mill head assembly is also very similar to old SIEG C2 and C3 mini-lathe headstock, sharing many of the same components except the spindle. So perhaps also review parts of this guide.

Ketan at ARC

Thread: Plans for updating the archaic forum?
12/02/2021 17:59:56
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 12/02/2021 16:55:15:

Further to my previous post, the main point is that it is important that a website follows the needs of its users.

I have made it clear to the people working on this that when the change comes we need to keep the 'feel' of the website as familiar as possible.

Whatever criticisms there are of the modelflying website, the colours used are muted, the text is clear and well spaced and the layout reacts well to different screen sizes and orientations including phones and tablets.

Neil,

I hope MTM looks at 'the needs' of this sites users before launching. It looks like on the RCM&E site, they have just recognised the needs of their users for darker text colour, as I can see the text more clearly this evening... changed to black or near black instead of muted grey.

Don't know what's going on with the column on the right on RCM&E site. Some pages show a column on the right, like the earlier link I posted, and some don't. Maybe work in progress.

As far as mobile platforms in different orientations are concerned, there is no column on the right to be seen, be it on RCM&E or any other site to which you linked.

Ketan at ARC

12/02/2021 14:28:09

John Pace posted at 11.09 on 12/02/21 : From the part in brackets it would seem the decision has already been made , they just have not announced it yet.

- I am not so sure John. Advertisers have yet to be approached. I hope that what they are doing with RCM&E is an experiment rather than set in stone, before considering to roll out across their other sites. If the RCM&E experiment is the direction, it looks like they will be far less dependent on advertisers... going the self sufficient route. Personally I am not a fan of adverts flashing in-between posts of a thread, as it is difficult to focus on the topic. I am also not a fan of grey text, but that is my opinion only.

SOD posted at 11.58 on 12/02/21 : Is it likely the people designing RCM&E are idiots? I doubt it.

- Well, that depends on how many people they end up pleasing, and every person has their own mind.

- Before rolling out on the possible NEW LOOK ME forum, I hope they look at and read the contents of this thread. Note the following:

  • the demographics of RCM&E are probably younger than that on this forum.
  • On ME there is a good mix of older and younger (over 30 years of age) audience.
  • MTM needs to be aware that the older generation with knowledge on this forum are the people who mainly make up the main content of this forum, and teach the younger people who are entering the hobby. Older generation doesn't like drastic changes to take place quickly.
  • MTM needs the older generation to attract the younger audience. At the same time, the younger audience may like the flash bang hip stuff offered by cool looking forums to invite them in. So, some compromise may be considered... but not too drastic.
  • ME forums world ranking is far higher than any of the other titles in its portfolio:

ME ranks around 322,000 today, RCM&E ranks around 1.6 million, Model boats 9M, getwoodworking 2.2M, Patchwork & Quilting 6.6M, Stamp and Craft Stamper ... too low for classification. As of today, ME is the highest ranked in the world within the metalworking hobby sites.

So, whatever direction MTM decides to take, they may need to keep the above in mind... to keep their audience.

Ketan at ARC

11/02/2021 10:50:54

It may be worth keeping an eye on the thread: Welcome to RCM&E's new forum! to understand how things could develop if MTM decides to take ME forum in the same direction.

Ketan at ARC

Thread: Views Inside the Sieg Factory in Shanghai
23/01/2021 19:28:20
Posted by Bill Phinn on 23/01/2021 18:10:23:

Whatever SIEG may have come to stand for for its international clientele, the name was chosen for its positive German meaning, as Martyn and I suspected.

This is from SIEG's own website:

SIEG品牌源自德国,SIEG是德语胜利的意思...

"The SIEG brand's origin is Germany. SIEG means "victory" in German."

(My translation)

Edited By Bill Phinn on 23/01/2021 18:12:28

Bill,

No one disputes the origin of SIEG or meaning. It just wasn’t used or promoted as a brand by the factory Pre early 2000s. smiley

Ketan at ARC

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