|Thread: 1st milling with the ZAY7045 Milling machine-Question|
Martin Connelly, just to let you know, I really appreciate this reply of yours.
In the mean time if you search "Conventional Mill" differences with other vertical mills, theres some interesting knowledge I did not know about......, so this is a Conventional Vertical Mill/Drill I have, they just did not say it like that in sales or manuals from what I got.
Edited By Chris Mate on 21/01/2022 14:57:06
From the manual, poor quality, I illustrae the swivel parts involved:
JasonB: I have certain trust assumptions I make and believe it is true points or surfaces that matters
(Till proved incorrectly manufactured or otherwise)
0a-The spindle centre.....I put the dial test-indicator inside the spindle centre and trust that in my case that is more accurate to the operation than any outside surface of the gearbox where they used body putty as filler.
0b-The X-axis hardware metal surfaces:These surfaces top and around looks very neatly grinded. I do not trust this mill's bed 4x grooves to be accurate on the insides, so say for example I put a precission parralel in groove to press a square and the sweep from that, I dont trust this way here.
So I clamp the precission square to the front of the X-axis bed, then position the test-dial indicator from spindle. locked out its backlash with hand so indicator stay put(Lowest gear set), I then swept the other part (90degrees of square) with the dial indicator by cranking the Y-axis. Now to me if this stay zero reading my X-axis is moving square to my Y-axis and at the same time I can claim my swivel bed is lined up at 100% zero mark.
Step-2:I Now assume X-axis is moving square to Y-axis.(Step-1 result)
So now I dial in the vice fixed jaw with dial test-indicator sweeping the fixed jaw by cranking the X-Axis.
Result: I now trust that the fix jaw of my vice move square to the Y-axis as I wanted in this case as I crank the X-Axis...I also trust that if I clam a 1-2-3 block in vice, it will swept zero reading if I crank the Y-Axis.
If I now cut a block square, and its not square......I have a problem to discuss with company I bought it from..
Edited By Chris Mate on 20/01/2022 12:47:13
Edited By Chris Mate on 20/01/2022 12:48:39
JasonB, that is what I have done.
1-The Y-Axis is fixed and cannot move accept forward and backwards to and from the Z-axis, unless theres a manufactured problem and you need to fix that.
2-I have squared the X-Axis to the Y-Axis with a precission square, I only use for this pupose, I actually going to get a larger one. The X-Axis is part of the top of the swivel bed above the split.
3-Now I use the dial indicator in the spindle to trim the vice rear jaw to the X-Axis which is square to the Y-Axis.
1 to 3 is exactly as I did it. In other mills the X-axis is fixed square suppose to be to the Y-Axis permanently, so unless theres a manufacturing problem or loose gibs, it must be ok, so you only left with the vice, head, and the X/Y towars the vertical column(shimming).
This is my understanding, except the confusion over the X/Y axis.
Andrew Johnstone:..."Setting the swivel table parallel to X"...
I am not sure I understand you here, my mill does not have more sections in the bed I can do that......I assume you mean setting the X-Axis=The top section of swivel bed above the split...square to the Y-Axis. Maybe your mill is different regarding the swivel parts its made of-?
Edited By Chris Mate on 20/01/2022 10:54:36
Request: Can one of the moderators please close this thread, as its now a complete mess and serve no purpose.
I will carry on with the mill as time goes, if I understand something wrong, I will see/measure it in the part and learn from there. Thanks to those that gave inputs.
What I will do now is put a scribe in the spindle/drill chuck, fit a flat piece of aliminium to the vice, make a scribe with the spindle in the surface as it is now squared positioned according to indicator in spindle, then I will play around with the vice, table(x) and combination of both and see how and where the scribed lines go, I wont live long enough to go for an engineering degree, so it down tio the ground for me then.
Edited By Chris Mate on 20/01/2022 05:07:28
Edited By Chris Mate on 20/01/2022 05:08:25
Andrew, my indicator was in a chuck(Z1/Z2-axis) in the spindle before I fit the face cutter, I then have the spindle in lowest gear and grip with hand to take up play, it then stays there, so the spindle does not move/turn, I then indicate the vice fixed jaw placed on X-axis which can swivel).
As soon as I receive my stainless tray to modify to sit over vice, I have to take it off, and will expiriment again. The indicator was not anywhere on the mill body positioned-Do I understand this wrong-?
Edited By Chris Mate on 20/01/2022 04:29:52
illustration for ZX-45 (ZAY7045M)-Swivel bed Mill
>The "M" indicates the swivel option in the model type.
Note:The X-AXIS swivel around zero degrees mark at split.
To dial in your vice fixed jaw square, ...you must 1st line up this X-Axis square to Y-axis, if not 100%, its difficult to get vice set 100% square. I have made 2x adjusting blocks(Bolt-On) with screw adjusters to easily square this bed (X) without tapping with a mallet, it can be easily removed if in way of swivel.
Edited By Chris Mate on 19/01/2022 20:04:30
Thanks JasonB, I found it(dro-linear-encoder-summing-interface) will look into it.
Edited By Chris Mate on 19/01/2022 18:56:28
JasonB, thanks man, I appreciate this and will stick to this then..
Both manuals for the Lathe and Mill is pretty useless and poor print quality you get with it.
Just a question further about Z-Axis.
If you want to get a 4x axis DRO:
Is it correct to call the Mill Head moving up/down=Z1
And Quil moving up/down=Z2
Hi, jason, I thought it was like you said, but after googling it, I got to as I have stated it. I have not yet a DRO, so if I misunderstood it, I accept, very confusing as explained in different places on the net.
Note-2 continiue:...(I cannot edit other post anymore)
5-I also modified the tapping switched function further so I have on top of hiow it naturally function, now two extra buttons which I can press a-to top it going down any place I feel like, then reverse it, and then stop it going upward any place I feel like, not relying on its positional limit switches.
Edited By Chris Mate on 19/01/2022 14:08:15
Edited By Chris Mate on 19/01/2022 14:08:44
Disclaimer:I got a bit confused if I google the axis explanations, so correct me if I am wrong.
-I assume the X-axis is the one with the 1-Handwheel and you crank it towards or away from you.
-I assume the Y-Axis is travelling left to right in front of you with the two handwheels, one on each side.
-I assume your Head with gearbox going up and down is your Z1-Axis, and your quil up and down your Z2 axis.
- Will post a picture from the manual and mark the parts we talking about.........
Sorry if I used incorrect wording:
1-You have the lower cabinet on which it mounts.
2-Then you bave the power base which bolts to the cabinet.
3-The X-Axis are from the lower base top.
4-Then you have a center piece which make the swivel possible. This centre piece has a lower part which form the X-axis and its front handle. The top part houses the Y-axis lower part and you lock it down with two large bolts, one on each side.
5-The Y-Axis part of the table mounts and slides on this, controlled with the two handles, one on each side.
6-The Y-Axis is the one that swivel 45 degrees through 0-Degrees to 45 the other direction.
7-If I want to dial in my vice, I must 1st dial in the Y-Axis swivelled to 0 degrees. I have verified and fine adjusted it using a precission square running the X-Axis forward and backward in relation to spindle. If this is not exactly zero, I found I cannot dial in my vice 100%. I think this may be interesting, seeing if you dont have a swivel bed Y-Axis you rely on its manufactured accuracy, which if slightly out, is a difficult job to get right, so I assume in such a case you can spend hours and just get your vice 97% say accurate as example.
-So I assume if you have a mill without the swivel bed, and you get your vice dialed in 100% you have an accurate mill in that regard.
Added pictured explanation of how it swivel:
The Mill I bought was named=ZX45 as plate shows on face of it.
However the manual I received with it say its ZAY7045M, where M=Indicate the swivel function option.
It is sort of heave, If I hoist it without cabinet, my new 2-Ton engine hoise dont move by pushing it, I had to lever it with a jack handle along the floor. I am not sure exactly what it weighs, seeing themanual in places not accurate, like it has a MT3 spindle, no, it has an MT4 spindle. It looks similar to some heavier duty drill presses.
It has a 10A motor 220V. It seems not sloppy in the axises.
I did a few electrical mods to the machine.
1-The thread cutting feature, the upper limit switch was garbage. I removed it, and fitted a quality switch inside towards the bottom, but it now always indicate the quill in its top resting position.
2-I added a 24V fuse and on/off switch.
3-I must still add a safety off switch to a foot pedal as I did with the lathe if both hands are occupied to switch it off..(After the carnage happenned if it fast).
4-I did various mods to the coolant system, still busy with the returm path from bed.
Edited By Chris Mate on 19/01/2022 13:48:44
Edited By Chris Mate on 19/01/2022 14:01:30
Ok, I could not stop thinking about this and after some time my mind came to a resting point somewhere.
I made a simple sketch in paint and uploaded it, illustrating my current view on this triggered by what other mentioned....
Today I am going to bolt the 2x parts together seeing they have holes, and mill both small ends together clamped in vice.
Some questions going through my mind:
0-Spindle Speed=+/-500rpm......The time a cutter tooth spends on the part.
1-Face Mill size=80mm
2-Face mill teeth=4....wide spacings..
3-The part with=20mm......
4a-The -amount of teeth- versus the part with and the -gaps or not- in play.....
4b-The mill has a gearbox or not....
5-The spindle Rotation=Clockwise.
6a-The part offset towards me...Angle into work and out...Grader
6b-The part centred to spindle centre.=Blunt cutting...Bull Doser
6c-The part offset away from me...Angle into work and out...Grader
It seems one can have "Conventional Milling" ....."Blunt Milling"..... and "Climb Milling" like but not similar to other side milling practices.
Edited By Chris Mate on 19/01/2022 06:06:45
Howard, interesting remark, I was not sure about climb milling with the facemill, if I put it on centre, ok the time of the cut is shorter, the angle is more headon, the sound if I can describe it was blunt and it sound like its putting play on mill gears in gearbox or bring out the play and it looks like it pushes the cut like a bulldoser, compared to a grader with blade sideways scraping the road, ..while off centre it's more silent and free cutting sounds good, however I could not see a diffrence in quality of either cuts apart from the angles finished.
Edited By Chris Mate on 19/01/2022 03:05:05
Hi Dave, I have just millied without coolant just a spaycan cutting fluid, so thats no problem.
I could have bought other similar mill without coolant tank option, but none of them had the swivel bed. The company I bought this from refused to sell it without the coolant or cabinet. So seeing I paid for it, I decided to give it a try, and in the process I want to experiment with my own version of an oil catch can floating in the tank, keeping oil from above from entering the coolant mix, it will push over in a little container by itself/levels.
The mist I rules out seeing I don't want to breathe that, same with the smoke, the lathe is less of a problem where its located.
I will probably use only a small slow stream, the rest circulate filtered back to the tank. I can also add a residual small tank, so if a small job, I dont start pump.. On advice I will mix the coolant a bit more oil.
-This is just a personal choice, if it does not work out as I thought, not the end .
Edited By Chris Mate on 18/01/2022 17:32:04
Ok, so I offset it quite a bit towards me(Y+...-? from the centre, and the sound if much different softer, and I get the feeling I can feed it faster if I want to.
I don't have DRO, so I interswopped them in vice(twice) till both down to 17.5mm.
The finish is good and evenI would say, very happy with that.
Will inspect the cutter tips tomorrow.
So thanks for information given, this was an interesting experience about cutting sound.
JasonB, I was cutting steel, I am going to go to the other extreme of off -setting it more than the 1st time, and listen to the sound and compare cut surfaces. The mill never sound it would struggle, its just the sound of the interrupted cut I noticed was different..
Note:Coolant and costs....This effort is just a personal choice which I hope works out good without having a CNC like enclosure.
The reason I have not bougt ER collets & cutters yet, Is I am spending money on stainless steel trays & guards with the purpose of catching chips, route flow coolant and be easily cleaned and removable, so for the vice I have a different setup than for just the table.
I watch milling for 2 years now, and in this regard I have an idea of how I would like to do it to minimilise the mess coolant can make, I am finished with tha tank, pump, filtering and pype routings back to the mill with nozels(3x) flow controlable with backflow from back from pump back to tank. The catch areas and those routing back to tank I must still do.
Edited By Chris Mate on 18/01/2022 12:58:40
Thanks, you have a point about the offset thing. I started the other day with accidently had it off set towards me(The front), and it sounded better than today, thats why I decided to question it.
My feed rate was slow manually, slower than the other day with offset due to sound. I think I might have cut 1-1.5 mm off in this go.
I cut one, the cut looks 100% well to me. I will change the offset to the other day, and cut the 2nd one that day.
-I will then remove facemill and inspect cutter tips.
-I will then call it a day on milling till I got the right ER32 or ER40 tools & cutters.
Edited By Chris Mate on 18/01/2022 11:44:52
Ok, at moment I am busy milling the 2x small tools I made to bolt and fine adjust the swivel bed 100% square. I grinded them with grinder , drill holes and tread on on each, and mill the bases flat so they bolt on square to bed base.
I set up the cutter by letting the 4x brazed inserts tips down on a round plate on top of vice I considered flat enough, and tightened them with least stickout, just a bit.
Today I mill their top sides to same height and sqare to the base.
My question is, is this type of milling consider a good or bad practice(-?) seeing its an interrupted cut, from what I can it is somewhat convrntional milling with the centre of the facemill lined up with the centre of the part and milling it from front view left to right under through cutter with cutter spinning clockwise. The cut result looks perfect to me, no irregularities on face.
Facemill(Received with mill)=80mm MT4 with 4 clamed brazed carbide inserts.
With of part=20mm...................Cut with 80mm facemill.
Lenght of part=50mm..Clamed in vice.
Speed=II + L setting=540rpm.
Good or bad-?
If ok what depth of cut maximum you suggest for this operation, speed suggestion 80mm versus 20mm-?
|Thread: Running needle rollers between cast iron plates|
Interesting question, not an expert but I was surprised what Google search had to say...
This is a bit off the topic ....
1-high-nickel cast iron...Not all cast iron created equal......
2-Low load continious running with not much stop starts....
"Machining a Cast Iron Bearing"....I see ABOM79 machined a cast iron bearing, look at this.
Maybe someone has 1st hand experience of aplications-?
Edited By Chris Mate on 17/01/2022 20:25:26
Edited By Chris Mate on 17/01/2022 20:26:49
|Thread: Mill or drill for the same money|
I have a small drill press(1-8mm), a larger one (6-20mm) holes and now a mill.
So far the 2x drill presses never going away.
I have a general type of a question regarding drill bits & sizes and milling bits and sizes. I assume drill bits in general are not accurate by the way they operates therefore reamers, milling bits more of an accurate thing.
Not sure about indexable drill bits in drill presses and what they require in stiffness.
The question is with milling machines the spindle and whole operation is more secure, and with drilling machines(The home types) less so. So the question is is the slight play or forgiveness in drill presses more to the favour of the drill bits, less stress on them, than a mill will put on it drilling seeing it does not cut sideways as in milling, so if it wonders off a fraction the mill will put force on it to stay straight-?
Edited By Chris Mate on 16/01/2022 13:03:32
Edited By Chris Mate on 16/01/2022 13:04:10