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Member postings for DiogenesII

Here is a list of all the postings DiogenesII has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Tangential Tool Holder
23/06/2020 12:01:09
Posted by Niels Abildgaard on 22/06/2020 04:38:12:
Posted by DiogenesII on 21/06/2020 21:21:22:

I'm happy with the results. I have a good tool that will reduce the need to change & set (my shamefully haphazard collection of brazed carbide & HSS) tools so often, that doesn't need shimming, and in which the hard toolbit is rigidly held just off the front corner of the soon-to-be-bare topslide.

..I have no doubt a little tweaking and refinement here & there will follow, and I'll try some tougher and some softer, material soon and see what it does with that.. more anon..

Thanks for all your help, Niels.

You are wellcome.

You can always up speed and reduce deepth of cut.Try if You can beg or steel a case-hardened piston pin from a moped or lawnmover repairman.You will be astonished for surface look in the hardened zone but beware of swarf.

Apologies - I don't know what I was doing when talking about the depth of cut - it was well past my bedtime - somewhere from 0.08 to 0.15 mm reduces the strain on everything, maybe a bit less for finishing..

..light cuts for this gudgeon/piston pin, but the swarf came off deep blue and left a great finish..


Thread: Myford motor pulley shake.
22/06/2020 07:35:36

..with that kind of gap you may be able to insert slips of shimstock either opposite to (or maybe better), 120 degrees either side of the screw?

..a bit expedient, I know..

Thread: Tramming Milling Machine
22/06/2020 07:11:04

There's a pretty good description of "how" here, about 13 mins in..

Youtube - ThatLazyMachinist

..he uses a similar mill and has some useful things to say..


Edited By DiogenesII on 22/06/2020 07:12:14

Thread: Tangential Tool Holder
21/06/2020 21:21:22

Following the more-or-less successful trial of the principal, I thought I'd try and find something to cut in a more "real-world" way.
I have some "as-cast", 56mm diameter iron collars in the scrap box, and thought that cleaning-up one of these might make a useful subject.


The tool was clamped on the topslide at 45 degrees to the lathe axis to enable facing and turning without having to disturb it - it is very compact, and gives good access to the work for measuring etc. At some point I'll replace the clamp stud with a shouldered one, and can then secure the drilled holder directly to the topslide with just a nut & washer.

The carbide rod was shortened and then ground off-hand with a Dremel "Tile Cutting" diamond wheel (SC545) run at slow speed with the toolbit fitted in the holder to provide a visual guide.


Cutting performance was good - both in quantity and quality. The tool would cut to radius depth, but felt happier at a bit less than this - perhaps .8mm - which I think is okay for a small lathe spinning CI at 250rpm. The inner "roughing" cut on the face was "pushed" a bit, but still looks crisp & consistent, and the chips from the "skinning" look good. The finishing is certainly acceptable to me in the "normal" working conditions in which it was done - I'm fairly confident that with more careful hand- or fine-feeding and everything snugged up, it would improve further.


The "Tivoly" brand bit remained in pristine condition at the completion of the job, and also retained it's setting without being pushed down in the holder, so the split clamp may stay just as it is for the present.


I'm happy with the results. I have a good tool that will reduce the need to change & set (my shamefully haphazard collection of brazed carbide & HSS) tools so often, that doesn't need shimming, and in which the hard toolbit is rigidly held just off the front corner of the soon-to-be-bare topslide.

..I have no doubt a little tweaking and refinement here & there will follow, and I'll try some tougher and some softer, material soon and see what it does with that.. more anon..

Thanks for all your help, Niels.

20/06/2020 22:42:12

Thanks all for your comments -

Niels, that's a useful observation that I hadn't really considered - I guess I just drilled it halfway up the stock (and then reduced the height, anyway.. maybe I'll add that to the "to do" list.

Howard, I understand your motivation completely - I must admit that I have held on to some bits & pieces for years because I have had a destiny (loosely) planned for them, and it's the most satisfying thing to have exercised brain as well as arm in making something worthwhile. It'll be good to see it..

Paul, thanks for that - you've thought it through better than I did - I kind of pushed the idea to the back of my mind on the basis that I didn't want to abrade the top "reference" surface, and didn't think much further, but your idea makes sense and is feasible.

I'd bought a couple of Dremel diamond cut-off wheels which arrived today and which I used at slow speed to cut the rod into more convenient lengths; using the side also put a perfect flat top onto the bit, so I will see how that goes.

I had great success turning and facing without having to adjust the tool position (which was one of the things I was after) this afternoon, on an iron casting..

I'll post a description and some pics tomorrow..

19/06/2020 17:28:22
Posted by Howard Lewis on 19/06/2020 14:09:10:

..It is on what will be the column for a shop made Comparator...


Ah! - I really couldn't figure out what you were making, it would have made a great "what is it?"

..that will be a very satisfying one to bring to completion - at risk of being nosey, are you building in order to fulfil a particular need, or is this a project purely for personal interest?

18/06/2020 21:29:31

Following a week (and more) out of the workshop, I've finished a second toolholder.

Having digested the information provided in Niels' links and following a little correspondence, comment (thank you) and thought, the new version features a small but worthwhile adjustment to the tool angle, improved side clearance, and stronger tool-bit clamping.
I also bought a couple of 2mm round "Tivoly" carbide toolbits.

One of the first revisions was to amend the angle of the toolbit - in the original, I'd been fairly cavalier in the set-up and ended up with an angle of slightly less than the 12 degrees I'd shot for, so with this holder I was careful to err on the generous side to gain myself a little more side clearance.

The upper surface of the tool is machined to centre-height - this makes setting tool height easy, as the holder only needs to be inverted on a flat surface and the tool tip set to touch, whilst the clamp is tightened.
Currently, the tool is ground at the same angle to that in which it is inclined, to give a neutral rake that sits flat on the plate whilst setting - this means that the correct orientation of the tool can be both seen and felt during setting.

The nose of the new holder has an included angle of 80 degrees - reduced from the 85 used on the first tool, it makes acquiring the clearances for facing/turning less critical, and reduces the need to create extra easement by additional hand-filing of the nose.

The "flanks" of the nose were machined with the holder clamped horizontally - on my prototype, I machined them in the same "inclined-at-12-degrees" set-up as drilling for the toolbit, which looked neat & purposeful, but resulted in rather thin jaws, and I think the extra metal in the later version is a positive improvement - It also simplifies the making, as it requires only a simple (rather than a compound) angle to be made. I used a home-made 40 degree angle gauge cut from a piece of 6mm flat bar to align the holder on it's side in the mill vise.

The clamp screw size was upped to M4, the cap head being modified to provide clearance along the flank of the holder.

The tool cuts as one would wish a neutral-rake carbide tool to cut - the photo's below show a tough cap-head screw of unknown (but tough) grade, and a m/c wheel spindle. The results were from the very first off-hand grinding and are certainly acceptable - the spindle had a huge overhang in spite of being shoved up the 'ole as far as I could get it (and was unsupported at the free end because of the shortcomings of the Hobbymat tailstock).

I might make a simple jig to hold the tool for flatting with a lap, just because it's small and slips in the fingers.

I still have a couple of ideas to try regarding the the fixing of the toolbit - although the clamp isn't that onerous to make, it still requires a number of set-ups and operations that it would be nice to reduce, and requires compromises to be made the balance of which are difficult to resolve without making and testing.. a number of options are possible, some tried by others, and some perhaps not..

I'll update once I get a chance to do more with it..

..also belated thanks to John Haine for his link, and Howard, what was that thread project, and was it successful?




Thread: R8 or morse taper 3?
14/06/2020 21:52:04

..what degree of tool height repeatability is available with R8?

Thread: What Did You Do Today 2020
14/06/2020 12:30:05
Posted by Bazyle on 14/06/2020 11:52:01:

Last week an Irish builder working round the corner offered me a grand for my Landy. He was back just now and offered 3 grand. laugh Not selling as it is my camper van and when I retire me and my loco will be touring the club tacks.

..I don't want to cause alarm 'cos the guy might be perfectly innocent, but I have heard similar tales before - I'd be very mindful in securing the vehicle for a while.. Maybe it's bad to be so alarmist.. second opinions, anyone?

Thread: Timing setup
14/06/2020 09:22:02

bump.. fairly certain someone here will have the technique..

Edited By DiogenesII on 14/06/2020 09:23:38

Thread: Tangential Tool Holder
11/06/2020 17:18:07
Posted by Howard Lewis on 11/06/2020 12:44:04:

...Today I hope to cut a semi circular form thread, with a total infeed of 0.625 inchess...



..Heavens above - that's some screw.. ..are you making a cider press? smile p

11/06/2020 07:50:50
Posted by Niels Abildgaard on 10/06/2020 08:24:20:

Carborundum or silizium Carbide is much harder than aluminium oxide or corund that do not touch Tungsten Carbide .

Ebay also mention bands with Zirkonia as abrassive.

Is that hard enough to grind TungstenCarbide?

..Just been out for a definitive answer - I ground flats on the end of an old insert on my linisher - Zirconia will only just cut it (more like polishing, rather than shaping) and slow going, with heavy pressure (= belt wear) - I changed the belt to Silicon Carbide and removed more than twice as much material in c.25% of the time, with only light pressure. So No, not a practical proposition..

Any one know a source for Silicon Carbide Tape?

..I'd never realised that my neighbours were interested in Engineering Experiments, but when I finished at 7am, they all were at their windows, cheering me on and punching the air in excitement. ..Gratifying.

10/06/2020 07:08:35

Hi Jouke, and JG - thanks for your interest.

I think in brief, that cutters will only have longevity in harder materials if the edge is kept within quite a narrow range of angles maybe only a couple of degrees either side of about 12 from vertical - less and the tool may start to rub, more and the edge becomes too thin and will lose strength.

I'm unable to contribute much to the thread during this week in any case, so if anyone wishes to experiment and post their own findings, it will be both interesting and helpful in keeping the thread progressing..

regards D

09/06/2020 20:02:11
Posted by Niels Abildgaard on 09/06/2020 06:49:35:
Posted by DiogenesII on 08/06/2020 22:56:08:

How and what do you sharpen your toolbits on, Niels?..

There is a picture of sharpening here and stone is a carborundum or silizium carbide and not expensive,but diamond in some form is better.


Thanks for that, it is much as I thought, except that on Sunday I hadn't thought of, er, the high-level advanced technique of using a strip of abrasive paperblush.. you clearly have more of a head start than either of us ever imagined..

And still I can't find a day to make chips. Work is the curse of the Model Engineering classes..

Thread: 7 1/4 BR Brake Van Drawings Wanted
09/06/2020 19:42:23

A Mr "Terry White 4" added a posting (his first) asking for help locating drawings for a 7 1/4 BR Brake Van on the "Tangential Tool" thread, so I have taken the liberty of starting a new thread here in the hope that his request might reach a wider audience..

"Terry W, Hi all,Im trying to locate drawings for a 71/4 gauge BR Brake Van,can any one out there help?"

Terry, hopefully the title will catch your eye, if you see this please leave a reply below then any members who can help will be able to advise or message you.. Welcome to the forum, and good luck with your search.

Mods, hope this is okay, feel free to do with this whatever seems right to you..

Thread: Tangential Tool Holder
08/06/2020 22:56:08

Bah - 9 humid hours of clipping Buxus Sempervirens, followed by the infuriating agony of "Microsoft Photos" mysteriously re-materialising on my PC and sending two years worth of pictures that MS didn't know I had back to Silicon Valley, presumably to be inspected for any identifiable brand logos and the faces of people who might be on my contact list.. Wish you joy with that..

So where were we? ..I used Niels' method of turning a cylinder of known radius and a feeler gauge to establish that the surface of the Hobbymat slide is 10.07mm (THAT much wear, eh?..) below centre-height - milling the toolholder to this height, so that the point of the toolbit can now be set by turning the holder upside-down on a flat surface..

I think I will accept Niels' challenge and make a dedicated holder to fit the Myford - I'm sure that I will not win a straight race, but maybe I can cheat, or think of an even more outlandish set-up.

I really need to get some new toolbits ordered - the small HSS drill-shanks are coming to an end, and because most have been used/chewed, I notice that although the overall surface finish is okay, using magnification shows that "Edison Phonograph Cylinder" effect.. Stoning, testing & stoning "old" 2mm rounds is one of those things that life may be too short to be doing much of.. I'll have to sell my television or something, and buy a 2 x 100mm stick of carbide. And a quality pin vice, maybe..

How and what do you sharpen your toolbits on, Niels?..

What a day..


Edited By DiogenesII on 08/06/2020 22:58:57

08/06/2020 08:30:30

..parting a slot - now that is scary! ..I'll stick with a slitting saw..

08/06/2020 08:24:49

Good morning,

I had some success measuring and milling yesterday, and some failure with surface finish.. ..unfortunately, the tedious responsibility of "work" intrudes today, I will post some photo's and a fuller text this eveningface 24.

Thread: The Workshop Progress Thread 2020
08/06/2020 08:00:07

That Thompson really is an interesting little engine - I can see why you'd want to model it. I'd guess that economy was the main driver of the design, but there's something very pleasing about it.

Nice, Look forward to seeing it come together.

Thread: Tangential Tool Holder
07/06/2020 09:37:20
Posted by Niels Abildgaard on 07/06/2020 08:28:16:

Hello DiogenesII

The way to machine the cheeks can be seen here

Old pictures

I have never been very at ease with slitting saws and You just use one a little more than a mm thick?

What is Your centerline distance from compound slide top?

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 07/06/2020 09:20:26

Enviably logical! ..I wish I had that clarity of vision in the workshop.. A job for this afternoon..

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