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Member postings for C T

Here is a list of all the postings C T has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Help required to select correct replacement Relay
21/04/2020 17:14:33
Posted by Grizzly bear on 20/04/2020 18:29:55:

Hi CT,

Thanks for your reply.

The transistor is good for 0.5 amps, it's only operating the relay coil.

If you have an automotive relay to hand, go for it.

Good luck,


Grizzly Bear.

Thank you for taking time out to help.

Sorry for the delay in getting back but cleaning the house plastics (guttering, soffits and the like) interrupted serious work.

Back to business I do have a number of relays I have collected over the years not all new ones but in the collection is a new R20BC- 5 blade 40/30A changeover relay.

Data sheet

I also found something I had forgotten about it was when Maplins were closing down I purchased a number of items I thought may come in useful. In amongst a lucky bag of random things one of which is a timer kit you know the self assemble ones.

Well in the kit is a 5 pin changeover relay HKE HRS4=S=DD12V C

Found the data sheet

Is there any mileage in either of the relays?



Thread: Another mystery object.
21/04/2020 10:04:06
Posted by Ian P on 19/04/2020 19:41:09:

Grinding spindle extension is my best guess too, the only thing that makes me curious is how it is meant to accurately locate itself and run run true.

Unlike a lathe chuck there is no register associated with the 5/8" thread, there is only the remains of the 1" diameter face once the spanner flats are taken into account so the slightest burr on the face would throw the far end of the extension quite a long way off. If it is for internal grinding then presumably it would be rotating at high rpm so concentricity and balance are really important.

The extremely fine pitch and the very close fitting thread of the collet nut point to it being a precision made item but its at odds with the mounting thread.

Ian P


I should have read your first post fully as you had already dismissed the grinding quill theory sorry,

A three things come to mind firstly do you know where the engraver came from (the company and what they produced) this may give a clue.

Secondly is it an ejector rod? The reason I ask this is because many years ago one of the things we made for the foundry industry were ejector plates and ejectors they were of a similar design to your mystery object. We never made anything as long as your one but that's not to say no one did.

It has all the features securely bolted to a plate, a number can be used of differing lengths, replaceable wear part "the ejector pin" held securely by a collet system and adjustable to ensure accurate contact with the part being ejected.

Third but the collet doesn't fit the criteria is a Core drill spindle--







Edited By C T on 21/04/2020 10:04:40

Thread: Help required to select correct replacement Relay
20/04/2020 17:18:04
Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 20/04/2020 11:30:02:

Posted by Andy Carruthers on 20/04/2020 09:04:39:


I did find this relay on eBay: Please check the pinouts and unfortunately I don't speak French but it *might* be the right part

I think this is certainly the right part. It has a matching part number. HR-AMR-Y/012 Z1

HR-AMR-Y means it's an Automotive Relay. Although 'Fitre' made the faulty one there's no reason to replace it with another 'Fitre', any part matching the specification should do.

012 means it has a 12V coil

Z defines the pins, internal switch arrangement, current capacity and the 'must operate' and 'must release' voltages.

1 means the relay is fully sealed rather than being open or having a removable dust-cover.

The codes that matter when ordering an equivalent automotive relay are 012 and Z, and the French site ticks all the boxes.

Decoding part numbers is hit and miss. Many manufacturers use private codes making it difficult to identify entirely bog-standard components. Published identifiers can be hard to track down and it doesn't help the generic identities come in national flavours, usually for historic reasons. But in this case I think it's clear - the French relay is compatible, fingers crossed!


Dave Thank you,

With the detail you give to the identifiers and that you are absolutely clear in your own mind the French offering is perfectly compatible "not just compatible but exactly the SAME" relay then I think I will take a chance with ordering two from them.

I know I have been guided away from choosing an automotive sized relay and fitting it outside the module but would it have WORKED?



20/04/2020 10:25:21
Posted by Dave Halford on 20/04/2020 10:13:18:

If RS fails you try Farnell

Morning Dave

I have also looked at Farnell and was unable to find a suitable replacement.

My not finding a suitable replacement is more than likely due to my lack of knowledge than anything else. All I have to go on is the pdf data sheet and me trying to match all the criteria of the original relay, not knowing what is critical and what's not. Perhaps the only feature I can be sure of is that the colour of the case is not critical. After saying that I bet someone will say how the colour is important for heat distribution and can be detrimental to working heat range.



20/04/2020 10:00:13
Posted by Andy Carruthers on 20/04/2020 09:49:09:

Occams Razor - the simplest solution is always the best

I would go with direct replacement otherwise I have to ensure the replacement meets or exceeds the original item specification and modify wiring which from experience is time consuming and makes the fix non-standard, in years to come I don't have to remember what I did!

Thank you for that yes I agree simplest is the best.

The pins on the French unit look the same as my one and if made to an ISO or equivalent standard will have the correct spacings so do we (royal we because I don't know) believe they will be a direct replacement?

I have put a photo of the SPAL M5 control unit in my album.

Than you


20/04/2020 09:40:30
Posted by Andy Carruthers on 20/04/2020 09:04:39:

Grizzly bear offers good advice

Having looked at the pdf, yours is 1 Form C (Z) on the last page which looks to be compatible with a standard 12v relay, just be aware there are various standard 12v automotive relays!

If considering a replacement, from the pdf, the coil resistance is 130 ohms +/- 10% with current requirement of at least 12 A - that is, when the contacts are closed (NC) the replacement relay contacts must handle a minimum of 12A

I presume you have swapped the relays over (after checking they are identical) to see whether the fault moves? I expect this will be the case given your comment on intermittent operation but will confirm all other components are working ok

I did find this relay on eBay: Please check the pinouts and unfortunately I don't speak French but it *might* be the right part

Morning Andy

Thank you for the information and taking time to help again I do appreciate it.

No I had not swapped over the relays but I have now, yes they are the same and yes in both locations the good relay works always so I believe it is the relay at fault.

I have looked at and yes the pins look to be identical to mine five pins a group of three and two at the other end.

Not sure what to do now my gut feeling is to pursue the alternative relay first.

Thank you


20/04/2020 09:25:15
Posted by Grizzly bear on 19/04/2020 18:34:48:

Hi CT,

Thanks for the update.

Your duff relay probably has pitted contacts, causing it to malfunction.

Good thinking on the standard auto relay.

You will need to check if the relay coils are similar in value, do this with your ohmmeter.

Can you tell us what the numbers/letters are on the transistors, this will give us an idea of how much current they can switch.

Good luck,


Morning Bear

Thank you for the information it really is appreciated.

You asked for markings on the transistors I have also included the capacitors and diode markings may help you.

Transistors -- MPS A14 031

Capacitors -- 10uF (M) SE85° C 1144

Diode-----------IN 400 IC

Thank you


Thread: Another mystery object.
19/04/2020 11:15:33

It could be an internal grinding arbour.


Thread: Help required to select correct replacement Relay
19/04/2020 10:51:11

I have looked on the internet for How to check the various components located on the PCB I have found enough detail to satisfy me to go ahead with testing but first.

Rechecking the relays it would appear that the one relay which at first I thought was not working then after de-soldering it was working. after further try's I now find it will NOT WORK every time, its about three times out of ten when done one after the other in quick succession that it WILL switch.

With this information I am back to the relay replacement. I have looked on RS components web site and used the filters requesting the specification needed against specification on the data sheet for the fitre relay and it gives me nothing in the RS range.

I am thinking that my lack of knowledge of which criteria is critical and which is not is the problem there.

This may be out of the box thinking (well it is for me) "could I use a standard Automotive five connector none latching relay connected to the PCB by way of wire?" I understand the size difference and it not fitting into the control module but if it works I would be happy for it to remain outside the module. I am guessing this will put the module out of balance with the remaining electronics and is a NO NO but just thought I would ask.

Thank you in advance.


17/04/2020 18:31:54
Posted by Andy Carruthers on 17/04/2020 12:27:27:

Have you considered a replacement unit from a car breaker? Most likely the units are generic off the shelf so may be found in various makes and models

I have looked at a few units after your nudge not found one I could use. Will keep looking.

17/04/2020 18:18:57
Posted by Grizzly bear on 17/04/2020 16:12:37:

Hi CT,

The resistors are easy to check, the colours will indicate the correct values.

Diodes, if you have a multimeter, one way high resistance, the other way low resistance, plenty of info on the 'net.

Capacitors not so easy, best to change them, the values are written on them.

What are the numbers/letters on the transistors? You could swap them over to prove good or bad.

Where are you situated, I have a stock of components, cost of postage only.


Grizzley Bear

Thank you for the push, I will be having a go at repairing.

I can't make it any worse than a module that doesn't work which is the position I am currently in.

I have looked at the cost and everything is relativly inexpensive.

Not only will it be back working but I'll have a sence of achieved my first electronic repair (if it works)

The state of play is two working relays, everything else unknown condition. Out with the multimeter and start testing. Will the resisters show the correct resistance whilst still in situe, diodes as you say again whilst still attached. If no faults identified I will change both the capacitors and transistors.

Thank you for your kind offer of parts I may be back in touch.




Edited By C T on 17/04/2020 18:23:57

17/04/2020 11:30:39
Posted by Grizzly bear on 16/04/2020 19:03:49:


Can you remove the suspect relay without too much bother.( Easier to test).

The relay may be driven with a transistor.

It's also likely to have a diode across the relay coil.

These items are usually less reliable than the relays.

Good luck, keep us posted.


Grizzly Bear

I have removed both relays from the PCB and they both work fine on the board are as you say additional components-

8 resistors

4 diodes

2 transistors

2 capacitors

I now believe a repair is beyond my scope, I just would not know how to conduct any tests on any of the other components.

Thank you for your help.


16/04/2020 18:48:51

I am currently suffering from central locking woes on my Land Rover Defender its just not working.

The system is an after market one looks to be a reasonable quality made by a company called SPAL automotive.

The control module (60040222) has two relays Italian made by Fitre the reference number on them is HR-AMR-Y/012-Z1 I have found a data sheet for the relays on this page.$FILE/HR-AMR-Y.pdf

I am unable to find a distributor for Fitre relays so looked at RS components for an alternative but found relays to be a minefield and was unable to make any sense of the information I have to the information given on RS website to be able to select an alternative relay.

Can anyone offer assistance with selecting the correct replacement relay please.

I have only a minimum of electrical knowledge and only think it is the relay that is faulty as when I apply a voltage to the relays I can get the one working but not the other.

Thank you in advance.

Thread: What would I use a Plasma Cutter For
15/02/2020 22:12:36

I picked one up from Telford (Madley) today not used it yet.


Edited By carl timmins on 15/02/2020 22:13:38

Thread: Why are insert toolholders so expensive?
11/09/2019 18:47:46

I have worked for a premium company in the manufacture of tool holders for carbide inserts. When I first started the general consensus within the industry was any profits to be made was in the sale of the tungsten carbide and the steel tooling was a means to hold profit making product. The tool holders were marketed at a price that was competitive with that of other manufacturers not at the real cost to make, a strategy used by other industries such as men's razor manufacturers. The difference with these two examples is that the razor blades to fit the loss making razor are unique and you can only purchase the blades made by the supplier of the razor, therefore the real profits are made by the continued supply of replacement blades. On the other hand tungsten carbide inserts are made to ISO standards so you can use any companies insert in any companies tool holder. A company will have sold you a tool holder at rock bottom price hoping you continue purchase their inserts for at least the life of the tool holder. The cutting tool industry was having to adjust prices to remain competitive with the amount of much cheaper imported tungsten carbide cutting tools available. The manufacturing cost of the steel tool holder was scrutinised and eventually they were marketed at a price consistent with the cost to make plus a profit, hence a sharp rise in the cost of steel tool holders and the higher prices we see now from premium companies.

The quality of the tool holders did not rise they are and always were of top quality manufactured to a high standard, they want the best holders to hold their tungsten carbide, failures can be very expensive to the company using them.

Thread: Clarke CL251mh Milling Attachment Wiring Help
17/08/2019 22:21:40


I have just sold a Clark milling attachment and lathe bed ideal to set up as a stand alone Miller, the motor on it was a DC motor not sure if they fitted an AC motor as standard.

I am no help to you in your quest for a suitable controler but please double check if its an AC motor.

Thread: 1959 Nsu quickly
30/04/2019 18:33:57

This company have some NSU decals including Quickly I hope its the ones you need.


Thread: Merry Christmas
24/12/2018 18:24:29

Happy Christmas and a productive new year Neil and all members.


Thread: Can you identify the mystery man?
20/11/2018 18:00:39

Mystery solved,

After hours and hours of trawling the internet, (gosh so many advertising figures to look at) I found a photograph with the mystery man in. Dwarfed by Ice cream cones he looked to be much smaller than the 27 inches (685mm) high figure I have. The photograph had a manufactures name Yabdesgine based in the Philippines they seem to be responsible for most of the worlds figures. Not finding any information other than the group photograph with the ice cream cones I contacted the company by e male. They confirmed they did manufacture this figure and my man is known as wine man and should have a wine rack in his hands no longer in production he is succeeded by beer man.

Thank you to everyone for your help.

I can sleep now.




Edited By carl timmins on 20/11/2018 18:01:29

31/10/2018 10:32:24
Thanks for the heads up on this will let you know if it leads anywhere.

Edited By carl timmins on 31/10/2018 10:32:52

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