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Member postings for Martin of Wick

Here is a list of all the postings Martin of Wick has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: AT1 inverter 3 wire control
29/02/2020 11:10:51

John, ahhh….thanks for your valiant work.

it rather looks from your investigations that parameters available on these XSY devices all set the 'multifunction inputs' to the active high state (meaning they only respond to a VI increase). Given this is a budget unit, not entirely surprising. I guess if you need more control over parameters you will have move a bit upmarket.

This can be a bit of a pain if you are trying to use an existing or traditional switch gear that is non configurable.

For multiple e-stops or multiple limit switch inputs (if you can set them or replace them with NO switch units), the work around is to wire the switches in parallel rather than daisy chaining them in series as you would for NC/active low terminals.

So if building from scratch it looks if push button control is available but only via NO non latching switches individually linked com to terminal; com X1 50 P3 to start and com X2 51 P4 to stop. achieves the same a '3 wire' control (but only if you can reconfigure existing switches to NO).

When/if my switch collection arrives I will go test out the common control arrangements for lathes mills and drills and post some pictures of the wiring arrangement in the album for future ref. - may take me a couple of weeks though!

28/02/2020 19:32:42

There are Asian VFDs and Asian VFDs....

The XSY AT series are the ones that are commonly available on the bay etc., cost between £50 and £80 for usual hobby workshop powers. They are the cheapest of the cheap, the rock bottom, bargain basement, slum dogs of the inverter world! If you want upmarket, you go to the full blown Huanyang retail product, which is much more configurable

The reason XST ATs are cheap is because they have extremely limited software and very few set up modes and parameters as evidenced by the linked manual and name extension '... simple series'.

What little they do, they do very well as simple device controllers, and at £70 delivered, no questions asked for a two stage device, hard to complain. Except that the documentation is so poor that it is worth pooling some knowledge on control setup on this forum in order to help others. Omrons or IMOs they are not!


Edited By Martin of Wick on 28/02/2020 19:41:38

28/02/2020 18:48:31

Gavin, your settings work well but are form of operation that I would call wire control switching, implemented by using a simple latching switch ie. a toggle switch or rotary switch that maintains the contact between com and the terminal to permit running. This is a perfectly respectable control arrangement an one I have used myself for lathes.

I think what the OP (and I) are aiming at is control implemented by push button, non latching switches that send a signal or interrupt a signal to engage or release the terminal. Think of the two button arrangement RUN / STOP on a drill.

The point of '3 wire' control is to avoid powering the VFD with the drill or mill set in the active state ( in reality, the VFD would not permit this to happen and would set a fault condition, which would then have to be cleared etc).

Whether the ATn can be configured '3 wire' is more of a subtle problem, the question being does the peculiar and poorly documented range of available parameters for the AT series actually allow for that type of keying (press and release) type operation.

27/02/2020 22:28:38

Hmmm, John,

Bear in mind the 'fully comprehensive manual' has obviously had a very basic translation. Because the term 'three wire control' is not explicitly stated doesn't necessarily mean it is absent. Rather, I suspect it is wrapped up in the strange terminology of the various 'keying' inputs that need to be de-coded.

If a true three wire mode is not possible, I wouldn't mind betting there is a substitute via pulsed inputs. Hence it is useful to have a selection of push button switchgear that is configurable NO NC latching non latching etc.

I have used these inverters successfully in the past for lathes or mills but only ever set them up with wire control (rotary or toggle switches or push to make, etc).

In my experience, these are pretty capable devices for the hobbyist, just a shame the manufacturers don't quite set out control configurations, but I bet the simple modes of operation are all available in a limited form.

I was hoping to eventually configure my new AT4 for a recently acquired Viceroy drill and had myself been trying to translate how the available parameters for three wire on off or similar could be implemented, to allow drill style push button controls (all delayed while waiting for a suitable selection of switchgear to arrive from China for testing purposes).

Naturally, I would be most interested in your experimental results!

Thread: Four Jaw chuck
24/02/2020 16:44:57

Centring work close to the chuck at a half a thou is straightforward. The real fun starts when you have a slightly longer piece that needs to be set concentrically at both ends.

That when you find out how good your chuck is or how much patience you have!


Edited By Martin of Wick on 24/02/2020 16:46:31

Thread: Tooling and Feedscrew Clutch
20/02/2020 13:17:30

try this useful reference as a starter,

The Amateur's Lathe

by LH Sparey

usually available on amazon as either the modern paperback reprint with grainy blotchy photos at a modest price s/h or as a better hardback version from the 40's-50's for £8 to £12 depending on vendor and condition - hardback well worth it.

Helped me when getting started, succinct, well written, and dryly amusing at the same time and is still my goto book for quick reference (other tomes are available, of course).

Thread: Denford TDS23 drill spindle bearings
13/02/2020 14:05:01

Hopper, the bearings were bloody hard to get off the spindles and as you say will take some planning and polishing to get back on without damage.

I shall be getting some thick wall tubing and fitting plates to match the diameters of the inner and outer races/full bearing to use as seating tools. The pully spindle is fairly straight forward.

In the case of the main spindle, I have to get the lower bearing over the upper bearing land before locating the spindle with lower bearing in the quill, then squeeze the upper bearing down on the upper bearing land and into the top of the (hot) quill.

An 'interesting' job I think.

12/02/2020 22:11:47

Nothing to be gained by not getting a new bearing set once I started to molest them!

Just pressed the button on a set from Simply Bearings - SKF for the pulley spindle, thrust bearing and Nachi for the quill/spindle. Total cost seemed OK at £40 delivered.

The blurb for Nachi gulled me as it suggested that spec bearing was designed to handle axial loads better than the avge bearing optimised mainly for radial load. Whether 'tis true or not is another matter. Still it is a quality bearing.

Now have to go out and buy a bigger hydraulic press (as in longer) so I can get the bloody spindle in!

12/02/2020 19:39:58

Initially I was looking at the pulley spindle bearings, where there was a small ring of hard congealed white grease around the shaft.

Couldn't tell with the lower spindle bearings under the muck and grime of half a century my concern was that any grease inside the bearings has gone or dried out.

Much as I want to save money on the resto, I think DG is right and new bearings are called for - especially after the effort involved in removing the lower spindle/quill bearings this morning. I did note that although the thrust bearing looked perfect, it did feel slightly rough when cleaned and run dry.

Once the drill is fully cleaned, repainted rewired etc, I don't think I will want to be dismantling it again for a long while so new bearings are probably a time saving investment.


11/02/2020 13:59:19

Having acquired a cosmetically tatty but mechanically sound Denford Viceroy TDS23 floor standing pedestal drill, the process of restoration has started. I was amazed how smooth and precise the spindle and quill assembly was even after decades of neglect.

On extracting the mechanical, parts all bearings feel perfectly smooth and without play. However, where there is some leaked grease, it has the consistency of putty! I have a feeling this may be the case inside the bearing too (cant see because they have pressed metal shields).

So am asking for some advice - should I simply futureproof and replace all bearings with new ones? - cost is moderate, about £30-35.


Attempt to clean out the old grease in hot paraffin and regrease by leaving in molten grease for a while hoping the bearing cavity will fill?

Or leave alone and replace as is once all of the structural components have been cleaned and painted?

Secondly, has anyone any advice how to extract the column from the cast iron foot casting - I am guessing a great deal of heat will be required, but I am afraid of cracking the base by too much rough treatment.







Edited By Martin of Wick on 11/02/2020 14:00:05

Thread: What bench drill
09/02/2020 10:16:42

Neil, I think you have had better luck than me. Possibly the FE machines I have seen on display have not been set up properly or were the Friday afternoon jobs, but they didn't inspire confidence. I have been within a gnats whisker of shelling out my £250 or so, but just couldn't bring myself to do it based on the slop in the quill system. Although I expect in use, as you say, such machines probably deliver perfectly satisfactory results in terms of hole production.

Anyway, my drilling blues are now over as I have just acquired a Denford Viceroy pillar drill, locally and at a sensible price, but in the most horrific cosmetic condition (presumably from being stuck at the back of a farmers barn unused for the last half century).

What swung it for me was just how smooth and solid the quill movement was, even under the grime and neglect. This was confirmed when I finally manhandled its 120 kilo bulk out of the car and got a clock on it. About 2 thou runout at full (4.5 in) extension.

There will be a considerable cost in elbow grease, and a bit more for paint and new switch gear. Hope the effort will result in a smooth, solid, dependable drilling machine for about half the price of an import machine. (permission to be smug sir!)

Thread: Tool post for Myford ML10 lathe
07/02/2020 20:38:44

| Are there any tool post holders on amazon which will fit the ml10 without mods?

Nope! the ML10 is a frustratingly awkward beast.

Until you know exactly what you want for your particular jobs, get either some 10mm HSS or some cheap carbide tool holders of the ccxx and or dcxx type with a supply of tips.

Purchase from a metal factor some ally strip of same widths as tools, but in suitable thickness to bring the tools up to approx. centre line.

Purchase a bunch of cheapo feeler gauges, clamp and saw in half to give you some ultra fine shimming.

Make up your tools to just below centre height with thicker shimming when clamped using the simple tool clamp and araldite or super glue the shims to the base of the cutting tool, then find a fine shim from the feeler gauge to bring to exact height (by facing a bar to leave no pip). This will take you an evening to do a few tools, but they will then always be ready for use using the basic clamping system (which is actually quite versatile).

Then your next job will be to make whatever toolpost you like - a Norman patent would be a good first project or make a version of a tangential tool cutter that you can set on height and can do most of your cutting.

Don't be overwhelmed, don't sweat the small stuff, just plough right in and just treat it as a fantastic learning experience.

Thread: What bench drill
07/02/2020 15:49:48

Trouble is, for some reason you expect the higher priced machines from the commercial importers to be better than the budget version of their ranges that we all have in the garage to do menial work. Having looked to upgrade for over a year at various machines in the £200 to £300 category, I came to the conclusion paying more only gets you a bigger drill, not a better one.

They are without fail characterised by any or all of the following; wobbly quills, off centre spindles or chucks, flexible columns the thickness of a baked bean can, inadequate mounting hardware, rough actions etc etc. And yes, you could probably remediate the deficiencies to some degree, but WTF - for some crazy reason I expect the product to work properly out of the box without requiring a full rebuild, at least for the first week. Sheesh! how hard can it be to get a good quill fit with todays manufacturing processes?

In the main, the current crop of general purpose far east drill machines are all of the same fundamentally bad design, badly implemented, but no doubt very cheap to produce and profitable for the manufacturers.

You then turn to the recycled brit-tool market and quietly despair at the collection of knackered old dogs on offer, but at least you go into that market fully expecting to carry out a rebuild. Be prepared to be aghast at the prices those dog eared specimens attract. I suppose if you can source or make the spares required you would end up with something worthwhile eventually, but it hardly seems worth the cost in blood and treasure.

nb. This is where someone usually chimes in about how they found a pile of unused Awesome Specials (or what ever) for a fiver each outside the local tech. Well good for you, but that doesn't help rest of us that have to keep vainly searching.

Thread: Myford S7 long bed
02/02/2020 19:00:12

Personally I have never had any issues parting off on ML7 or S7 (that were not directly attributable to poor setup or not paying attention).

I now use a S7 standard bed and hardly ever use the power cross feed, I think the only major job I did use it for was to skim the faceplate once. If I was buying again, I wouldn't bother with the power cross feed.

Thread: New computer possibly required
31/01/2020 18:37:08

………. Would you supercharge a Morris Marina?

or possibly an Austin Allegro - especially the purple ones with the square steering wheel.


31/01/2020 18:16:01

Well it is horses for courses. As I understand it, the OP needs a machine running a relatively secure OS to browse, e-mail, write letters, do banking, run the odd spreadsheet or 2d cad.

You don't need the latest and greatest machine for that sort of work.

Yep, there may be other issues with the device to be aware of so need to balance risks, although a replacement SSD is relatively low risk upgrade as it can always be used in another machine.

A good spec brand x recon small screen laptop 3-4 years old will cost about £200-250 (or less if lucky). So not worth committing too much on refurbing old machines unless it has special features like large screen-

2Gb ram is a tight even for Lin-mint, my 14 year old Dell did much better on 4 Gb (max for 32 bit machines), but was acceptable on 2Gb ram although did exhibit lock ups with multiple browser windows open sometimes.

I use my old Dell for all domestics and it is just fine, Linux and its attendant software is adequate for most of my purposes and I can boot back to w10 for stuff like devcad-cam cura and other oddities as needed.

So if OP can't get 4Gb ram into his spec machine, perhaps right to suggest a newer model although if tied to Toshiba it may cost rather more than a refurb Lenovo or HP

Thread: Old Computers - why do people bother
31/01/2020 15:02:27

Because in the world of personal computing it is debatable whether you are actually getting anything better. I have old machines that run the old software very well, but that doesn't raise money for the likes of Intel and microsloth.

So con the gullible punters by generating ever more bloated software with its attendant extra quotient of embedded spyware and 'oh well sir, you need the latest megadweeb special...' at some vast increase in cost to get the unwanted and generally useless features of the supposedly improved software.

It is all a right con, and resistance is definitely not futile.

Thread: New computer possibly required
31/01/2020 14:44:08

As above,

back up all you want to keep external drive

get a cheap but branded SSD for between £25 -35 and either clone disk, or better still reinstall your Mint (because your performance issue may be due to something more sinister). And just for fun see if you can up the memory to 4Gb if the board will take it (assume it is 32 bit device)

I did this with an old Dell laptop of the same vintage and performance was perfectly satisfactory even on win 10 (using dual boot with Linux). Easy to do - I am not computer minded and managed OK. Will probably get another 5 years out of the device, maybe more on Linux, which is WTG for the future IMO.

Thread: First Myford question. hopefully not too stupid
09/01/2020 15:13:46

+1 peak4

it stays in place all the time, clean off all oil in the location slot, thin smear of Loctite (so you don't glue the locking cam as well !). Tap lever in lightly and leave to cure.

Thread: hobbymat not cutting Parallel
06/01/2020 19:42:55

A common issue with many posts for various lathes. Much has been said.

We assume you are not using a top slide and you are driving using the leadscrew and cross slide. You don't state length of cut.

You can check whether the problem is chuck or headstock with a decent length of silver steel say 20mm but it wont tell you whether the problem is with the chuck or headstock but unlikely to be chuck if you took a full cut (unless the piece moved during cutting in some strange wa.

You can check headstock alignment alone by purchasing a MT2 test bar six inch will do.

Good news is probably not bed wear if Dmax is at the headstock (unless the tailstock end appears untypically worn)

May be saddle is twisting slightly- check saddle gibs are tight and confirm it moves smoothly from head to tail without any loosening or tightening.

It might be some bed twist issues.



Edited By Martin of Wick on 06/01/2020 19:49:26

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