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Member postings for Simon Williams 3

Here is a list of all the postings Simon Williams 3 has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Metric Screwcutting on imperial ML7
09/05/2020 18:07:04

That "16-1/2" tooth gear was perpetrated by me, with active encouragement from the late John Stevenson.

If you want to pursue the matter further let me know what suits.

Rgds Simon

Thread: Tom Senior Advice needed
09/05/2020 12:58:30


Re-reading the thread referenced above Old Mart found a second grub screw lengthways.

You might like to read his post on page 3 of the thread, dated 28/08/19 20:56:16. For completeness here's the link again:

Restoration and Modifications

Take care, stay safe

Rgds Simon

09/05/2020 12:38:14

DON'T HIT IT!!!!!!!

If you take a look at the ongoing thread Restoration and modifications you'll see someone did exactly that with mine and broke the casting.

To be strictly fair I suspect they failed to remove the grub screw first. But is there only one screw?

Before getting too much into this, what machine are we talking about, and can we have a picture of the problem?

I pulled mine out with a length of M12 studding and some washers. Much more controllable than that horrid hammer.

HTH Simon

edited for link title

Edited By Simon Williams 3 on 09/05/2020 12:39:35

Thread: Restoration and modifications to a Tom Senior light vertical mill
08/05/2020 10:48:14

For my part that's an excellent resolution of something that's been nagging for some time. So thank you Steve for the update, it's a good result. I was one of the ones saying there's summat oop, so I'm pleased on your behalf.

As for the object lesson in buying secondhand electronics of indeterminate history, I've got two Telemecanique Altivar drives here I bought on spec' both have been set up with the OEM software and then locked so almost all of the setup parameters are not available via the integral front panel. I tried downloading the software, but it killed my laptop.

Some things one just puts down to experience.

Good news, many thanks for letting us know.


Thread: Myford Super 7 Tail stock problem
07/05/2020 10:47:04

FWIW my take is that you have the symptoms of a piece of debris jammed in the cast iron thread, about 1-1/2 or 2 turns in. Brushing with a tooth brush won't shift it. Cast iron, being relatively soft, will be locally bruised allowing the fleck of debris to nestle in a crevice, jammed in place by trying to force the male over and past it.

Borrow a small mirror, go looking down the thread for a foreign object. It will be obvious because it will be a different colour to the adjacent cast iron, having been burnished by running the male thread up to it.

Once you've found the bit, it'll take some shifting. Think pointy something with a 90 deg bend in it. It'll be surprisingly reluctant to let go.

Don't go cutting or filing, you know it fitted before, it'll fit again but there is a mechanical obstruction.

Once you've got the fleck out of the surface of the thread, go looking for another!

Good luck

HTH Simon

Thread: Getting a milling head ready for use
01/05/2020 08:43:51

Bingo! Well done, excellent result.

And congrats for applying a bit of science and hitting it in the right place.

(Like the joke: To hitting with hammer - £5

To knowing where to hit with hammer £105)

Best rgds Simon

30/04/2020 09:59:04

I'm just beginning to wonder if I've been leading you up the garden path.

That Autolock chuck is the one that uses a collet with axial pegs into the back of the body, whereas mine uses the collets with two ears engaging a slot in the sleeve nut. They look the same on cursory inspection, but are they?

Does anyone know definitively if the OP's particular chuck has a threaded backing ring, or is it indeed all one piece - which would explain why it won't undo!

I'm pretty sure there was a thread about recognising the different vintages of Autolock, Osborn Titanic and the like on here a year or so ago.

RGds Simon

30/04/2020 09:16:18

Here's a picture of a home made pin spanner - it's not big enough for this application but you get the idea:


You'll note that the element where the pin goes through is a tangent to the radius of the cut away portion.

To return to the question of whether the wedges are exerting a force between the quill and the back of the chuck, here's a picture up its nose so to speak:


I'm concerned that sliding hardened wedges across the face of the quill taper could bruise the end of the taper itself.

NDIY makes a valid point - the wedges usually grip the arbour to pull it out of the taper in the back of the chuck. I assume that these wedges are clearance on the chuck taper?

Best rgds Simon

29/04/2020 23:53:35

One more thing I've just thought of -

The backing ring is drilled on ts periphery in three places. In normal circumstances it would be sufficient to poke a tommy bar of just the right size into any of the holes and tighten the ring against the underside of the quill, and off you go.

Given this is turning into a bit of a struggle, you would be a lot better off with a proper C pin spanner of the right size. It's not difficult to make one out of a piece of flat bar say 10 mm thick by 60 mm wide. Chunky or what.

Machine a quarter of a circle of the diameter of the outside of the backing ring into the end of the bar, leaving a bit of overhang for the pin. Drill and ream a hole for the pin so it is radial to the end of the quarter circle cut-out, and pop in a pin the size of the backing ring circumference holes. I've used a bit of silver steel for the pin - you need something tough and strong.

It'd be a lot easier to show a sketch if only I knew how, but I've got one I made for something similar in the shed and I'll photo it in the morning.

The point of this is that you will get a lot more leverage on the proper spanner than on a simple tommy bar. I fancy the work of making a pin spanner of just the right dimensions is going to be less that dismantling the quill assembly which is where this is heading.

Good luck


29/04/2020 23:38:49

Hi again, couple of comments which might duplicate stuff you have already tried.

No we're not talking at cross purposes - and moreover you've worked out how to draw on a photo which is more than I have!

Firstly the ring with the tommy bar holes is jammed down tight as far onto the body of the chuck as it will go - compare my picture with the ring removed. At risk of a silly comment you have taken on board that this is a left hand thread? You should at the very least be able to turn the ring on the body - I bet someone has tightened this and bottomed out the thread thinking it is right hand. It isn't.

The ring should move up freely to contact the end of the quill/spindle - it is presently as far away from the spindle as it is possible to get it. If it was me I'd try a bit of heat on the ring to see if I could loosen it and get it to move. Don't overdo it - if you spit on it and it sizzles it's about right. Make sure you turn it the correct way not the right way!

Now you've got the wedges stuck it's irrelevant. But they'll come out if you knock them back with a suitable punch. A bit of 3 or 4 mm by 40 flat bar would do the job. Remember that a sharp crack with a light hammer (say 8 oz) will do more good and less damage than a heavy blow.

The wedges idea is the same principle, and I like the idea of squeezing them rather than hitting them. Having said that my inner waters tell me that a sharp crack with a hammer on one side with a large heavy lump of steel up against the other side to absorb the blow might well give a higher force than the vice can do. The clamping force of a vice isn't all that high. I've played this game with those wedges getting Jacobs tapers loose - its amazing how much force that taper needs to break its hold. It isn't just about force, it's also about jarring the assembly to shock it loose.

Have you tried giving the draw bar a smack (or two) with the wedges engaged?

Next plan is to try a bit of chemical warfare. Prop the head assembly on the bench so it is in the normal attitude, chuck down. Now find a plastic carton (ice cream tub sort of thing) and prop it under the chuck so the chuck can be immersed in cold water. We're not going to use cold water, we're going to go for a freezing mixture made of crushed ice (normal water ice) and a volatile solvent. Acetone is good, but I bet it would work with the contents of an aerosol of carburettor choke cleaner. Be careful, this mixture will give you frostbite so wear gloves.

Add enough crushed ice to cover the chuck, and add enough solvent to immerse the chuck in the cold liquid. Leave it to consider its sins for 15 mins of so, now try the extraction procedure with wedges and a few sharp whacks on the (loose) draw bar again.

If that don't hack it we're into surgery.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

Rgds Simon

29/04/2020 13:49:37

Hi again, instructions for assembly of a cutter into the chuck seem to be comprehensively covered in a parallel thread "Clarkson Autolock Help" which is currently live. There is some debate on whether the sleeve nut should leave a gap at the base - FWIW I was taught to leave a gap and to tighten the cutter into the collet till it ran out of travel then just nip the sleeve to lock the cutter against the centre tip and clamp the collet. But I can vouch for breaking the end out of 1/4 cutters by heavy-handedness, so maybe I wos tort wrong.

Any way, here's a picture of the same Autolock chuck dis-assembled.


The two components on the right of the picture are obviously the main body and the back ring. It might not be obvious if you're looking at the complete thing stuck in its taper that the back ring has nothing to do with clamping the cutter, it's only there as a stiffening device to improve the mounting rigidity. The thread is a multi start left hand thread. It's probably not intended as an aid to extracting the morse taper, but I don't see why not.

It's also been commented on that there is no way of holding the body against the force of turning the sleeve nut, other than sticking it in a No 2 MT socket and hoping it holds. Which, given that your problem is that the MT2 currently holds too well, is a bit of a catch 22. I'm minded to grind two flats on the main body so I can grip it in a vice but I haven't been brave enough to put in into practice yet.

HTH, keep us posted!

Rgds Simon

29/04/2020 10:02:07

Oh dear! Having the Autolock chuck taper refuse to let go isn't good news, but don't go bashing it any harder just yet, there is too much to lose by damaging the internals of the quill. There is much on the forum about the troubles of removing a stuck MT2 taper, with suggestions about the cause being fitting a cold taper into a hot socket, as the pair of them cool to a common temperature the taper socket shrinks onto the arbour, and it can be a devil to get them to let go of each other. It sounds from your description as if this might be your starting point.

The answer is hopefully hidden in your second question about the threaded backing ring with three tommy bar holes.

You will have noticed that the thread in this is left handed. The purpose of the ring is to be snugged up against the nose of the quill taper, this stiffens the tool set up and changes the resonances to compensate for the shortcomings of a No 2 morse taper fitting.

What you can do at this point is to use the threaded ring to pre=load the taper in the "coming apart" direction. There is a pair of spanner flats on the nose of the quill, but you will need a very thin spanner to get onto them, so you may have to hold the body of the chuck to allow you to push the nut firmly up against the nose of the quill.

Tighten this as much as you can up against the nose of the quill, hopefully without brutalising the tommy bar holes in the ring, which is hardened so don't be too frightened of it. The idea is to establish a significant preload pulling the male taper out of the quill by pushing the ring against the outer end of the quill.

Now lock the quill (ball handle LHS of the quill). Now smite the end of the drawbar sharply, having made sure that it is loose and there is a bit of clearance under the head of it.. I'd use a copper hammer for this, you need a good sharp crack to break the taper. Patting it with a soft hammer or through a bit of wood won't do any good, and I think your 3 lb hammer is a bit too heavy, I'd go for something maybe half that weight.

I've got a face mill which jams every time I use it, I haven't broken anything yet by hitting the drawbar with a 12 oz hard hammer. No idea how brutal is too brutal!

Give it aa couple of good whacks, don't keep beating it if it won't come loose. If it won't we're into thermal shock as the next resort, but you need some dry ice to cool the Autolock chuck and that's going to be difficult at the moment. Ice and acetone will also work as a freezing sulution, but that's getting even more complicated.

I'm charging the camera battery at present, and will post some pictures of how to assemble the chuck - hopefully correctly - later.

Do let us know how you get on.

HTH Simon

27/04/2020 19:30:32

+1 from me on Martin's suggestion to check the drive belt. The two cheek plates pull off the side of the assembly to expose a pair of four speed cone pulleys and a dear little vee belt. The state of that belt will shape your experience with using this machine.

So much so that I suggest you buy a new one and just fit it. If it is the same as mine it is an SPZ500. Changing this on mine made a disproportionate improvement to the amount of power actually reaching the cutting head, and also the smooth running of the machine. It is tensioned by loosening a nut to the right of the motor mounting flange and swivelling the motor.

Changing the belt is a matter of locking the quill fully extended, now the belt will pass over the top of the spindle pulley and under the bottom of the motor pulley. Or at least it does on mine.

Have you perchance the rest of the Autolock chuck stashed away somewhere? If you would like a picture to explain what's missing let us know!

HTH Simon

Thread: "I'm gobsmacked", Mi' Duracell's leaked.
15/04/2020 20:02:18

I have a theory, and hopefully someone who understands the chemistry of what's going on will be along shortly.

My impression is that if the gismo with Duracells in it has a proper mechanical switch - a true off switch - then the batteries last well, and are "reasonably" trustworthy.

On the other hand a lot of modern electronics has a push button on/off switch, which just sets the gadget in a state of hibernation. If so, the continuous off state current - however small - will eventually discharge the cell.

It seems to be what happens next which matters - if the gadget continues to present a current drain on the flat cell then it's only a matter of time before the cell leaks, initially a clear fluid which rots everything it contacts, then turn in due course to a white crystalline deposit on the battery enclosure. Neutralising the sludge with acid is fine, now how do you get rid of ALL of the acid? Answer - laboriously.

On the other hand, if you take the flat battery out of its gadget and throw it in a box for re-cycling, it's still sealed a couple of years later. I've tried it - it takes me ages to "get roun'tuit" to take the battery collection to the tip I mean re-cycling centre.

I have a variety of Sennheiser body pack wireless microphone transmitters and receivers I use for a local fete for the PA. I have found from bitter experience its is essential to remove the batteries from each item before storing them over the winter. The batteries are perfectly safe (famous last words) so long as they are NOT in the bodypack - where there is a miniscule standing current of a few microamps, but I have lost at least two systems by being careless and failing to remove the batteries before storage.

HTH Simon

Thread: I once built a go cart
06/04/2020 19:37:23

Long ago, in a galaxy far far away I built a hover craft for the son of a neighbour as a project linked to the Neighbourhood Engineers initiative of what was then the IEE.

To be strictly accurate I built the transmission, my neighbour's son and his sixth form buddies built the hull and the rudder mechanism.

It was the type of hovercraft which uses a single engine for lift and propulsion, about the size and looks of a rubber dinghy with a tail fluke. It had a Suzuki 250 cc bike engine coupled to a big Breezamax fan, with about a quarter of the resulting draft directed down into the skirt. The mountings for the fan and engine with a chunky toothed belt drive was the bit I contributed.

My principle recollection of it was that I took the responsibility of the initial trial, so I revved up the motor and it lifted off the ground and set off. Letting off the throttle caused it to sink immediately to the ground, whereupon it threw me out of the front as it came to a direct and very abrupt stop.

But the main difficulty I had with it was I never got the hang of the steering - or rather the lack of steering. We had the use of the local school's football field to play with it - imagine a completely flat grass field of about 4 acres, with rugby posts at each end. Try as I might I could not escape the magnetic and overpowering attraction those goal posts had for the front of the hovercraft. I think I collided with one or other of the goal posts three times.

There are clubs who race these things over land and water - and my neighbour's son had his heart set on joining in. I left him to it!

Ho Hum


Thread: Myford Mk1 Super 7 restoration
05/04/2020 18:54:12

Hi Pete, thanks for those kind words, good to hear you manged to wiggle the lead screw out successfully.

Given the wear on the lead screw, you might decide to replace it. I have doubts if you'll find a new direct replacement, but the lead screw for the Mk2 S7 can be altered to fit, though I fancy you'll need a lathe to do it. Essentially the old screw is shorter than the new one, I can't remember if it needs a shoulder turned on the end to take the drive gear, when you're ready post a picture and we'll fathom it out.

Where are you? If you are anywhere near West Glos UK I'd be pleased to help. Of course that's not going to happen for the foreseeable future while this corona virus stuff is going on.

In passing, I checked the serial number of mine, it is SK 3534 which I believe makes is vintage 1953. Two years older than me!


Rgds Simon

05/04/2020 09:15:19

Morning Pete, welcome to the Myford "it's older than I am" club - which mine is. I've got one looks exactly the same in my shed, love it to bits. It's a little bit older than this but it's a trooper.

Two little jobs to recommend to you if I may:

1. Clean the half nuts, as that is almost certainly the cause of the thread wear you show on the leadscrew. That means withdrawing the leadscrew - the bottom nut will come out downwards but the top nut is held in by the lead screw. But I bet the halfnuts are full of an abrasive mix of compacted swarf and old oil, which is abrading the lead screw and stopping the half nuts engaging fully.

This means removing the leadscrew, come back to that.

2. Cover the ventilation slots in the motor. The more modern version has a totally enclosed motor, but this one is vulnerable to bits of swarf taking a hike down the openings in the motor. Can be exciting.

Going back to taking the lead screw out, I think I'm right in that the leadscrew you have does not go right through the gearbox like the later one does, so all you do it remove the little cover RHS of the QCGB and unto a grubscrew (maybe two?) to loosen the drive gear just inside. With the half nuts handle removed, now remove the two screws at the tailstock end of the leadscrew which mount the RHS bearing to the bed of the lathe. The lead screw with hand wheel, bearing bracket etc should now slide to the right, out of the half nuts. I haven't done this for ages, if anyone else knows different or I've left out a stage please correct me.

One other comment - you have the (contemporary) Mark 1 gear box there - if you get into playing tunes on the gear train between the mandrel and the gearbox to cut threads other than those shown on the gearbox legend plate you need to know that your gearbox runs at half the speed of the later Mk 2 gearbox. Plenty on here to explain what that does to the arithmetic, more anon.

And lastly, my take on the bed wear issue is that unless it is completely outrageous it is survivable, and getting fixated on whether the bed is parallel is not necessary.

HTH Simon

Thread: Removing (decorators) paint from Myford Panel
02/04/2020 12:24:33

Mornin' all

Methylated spirit will dissolve emulsion paint - albeit slowly.

HTH Simon

Thread: 7 pin connector 240v?
27/03/2020 13:52:10

Assuming that the seventh way is for an earth connection, my preferred option would be this:

Harting 6P plus E

HTH Simon

Edit - re-reading the prior suggestions I see Robert is (as usual) ahead of me.  Apologies.

Edited By Simon Williams 3 on 27/03/2020 13:56:12

Thread: Tom Senior light X Axis power feed
25/03/2020 10:11:28
Posted by Steviegtr on 25/03/2020 00:47:37:

I found it's short comings when drilling some holes the other day & it was easy to stall the motor at 50hz.


Something mighty peculiar with that, unless you were doing something crazy - I assume not.

Either the VFD is current limiting, or the motor is still wired in star not delta, or perhaps both?  Any which way round, mine won't stall with the original 1/2 HP motor unless I go brutal, and we wouldn't want to do that would we?

HTH Simon 

Edited By Simon Williams 3 on 25/03/2020 10:14:36

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