By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more

Member postings for Keith Hale

Here is a list of all the postings Keith Hale has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Silver Soldering Materials
17/01/2021 00:22:19

If loctite or soft solder will give you the results you require, then why even consider using the more expensive option of silver solder.

It's a no brainer!

As before, there needs to be a very good reason to use silver solder. If you don't have one then glue the components or rivet them. Don't waste your time or money.



Thread: The romance of silver and gold
16/01/2021 13:02:26

The Incas hoarded much silver and gold. You couldn't leave the planet without it.

The metals were held in high esteem.

Silver was referred to as " the tears of the moon"

Gold was known as " the sweat of the sun"

Being an old romantic myself, I prefer silver!


Thread: Silver Soldering Materials
16/01/2021 12:46:29

Yes ega, they did.

Let's keep the thread on topic. see personal message.


16/01/2021 12:28:19

We'll try again Dave ☺️

PL is misguided.

Increasing the silver content does not lead to a higher brazing temperature - quite the opposite.

Nor does it lead to stronger joints.

Where does this myth come from? Someone trying to justify the cost of the filler metal. They only have one to sell? No experience of other alloys? Lack of knowledge?

Silver solders are only used when there is no viable alternative. This is usually a technical consideration.

A properly made silver solder joint will be stronger than the parent material irrespective of the alloy used.

Weak joints are created by poor brazing practice. They are made by poor joint design, poor fluxing, and poor heating technique. Silver soldering is a very simple process albeit very skillful. Deviating from the basic principles of the process or taking short cuts will inevitably lead to problems. The quality of joints is controlled from behind the torch. No exceptions.

The Incas referred to silver as" the tears of the moon" Poor silver soldering practice should be referred to as " the tears of the model engineer"!

For more information then consult BS EN 14324 "guidance on brazed joints" or read my book which is based on the standard but embellished with 50+ years of experience in the business.

What is there to lose by doing it correctly?


Thread: Cleaning copper rivets.
14/01/2021 08:38:13

Fizzy is bang on!

It matters not how clean the rivets are when assembled, it matters only how clean they are at brazing temperature 660 °C. AND THAT IS THE FUNCTION OF THE FLUX. All you need to do is make sure that the components are free of oil and grease or anything else that will prevent capillary flow of the filler metal.

To be successful, I suggest that you appreciate what to do and why when brazing/silver soldering. It is a very simple process but skilful. Not acknowledging that will inevitably lead to problems, maybe not now but certainly in the future..

Several companies produce excellent data and information. Use it. Don't trust salesmen? Read the information in the form of BS 13424.

After all, if you want help with the selection of your Sunday roast, do you ask the person behind you in the shop or the butcher?



Thread: Another Telephone / Computer scam?
07/01/2021 14:37:30

And because I didn't press option 1, a warrant for my arrest has been issued for income tax fraud. Fortunately they don't know what I look like, nor my address so I can send them round to yours.

Thread: Boiler silver soldering and use of Silfos
07/01/2021 09:14:58

Hi All,

Add to the list of lifes certainties;

Flat roofs leak and

Leaks in a brazed joint are caused by operator malpractice. (No exceptions!) Refer to BS EN 14324 Guidance on the application of brazed joints.


Mass spectrometers in a jewellers or pawnbrokers? They use hallmarks and trust/gamble on what an experienced eye tells them


06/01/2021 09:00:18


Sorry br, I can't be more friendly, but thank you for your comment.




Edited By Keith Hale on 06/01/2021 09:28:11

06/01/2021 08:24:00

Hi Andrew,

Check out my profile and if you feel it's relevant then consider the content of the personal message.

I can honestly say that in my 50+ years in the brazing business, I have not come across a situation where anyone has felt the need to rectify a copper/copper joint, previously made with Silfos type materials, with either silver solder or soft solder.

There is a very simple and quick way to answering the question.

Clearly you cannot consider a phosphorus bearing alloy for repairing your leaks.



Thread: Removing soft solder from brass before silver soldering
03/01/2021 17:10:21

Hi all

What soft solder is the subject? Lead is poison to the body and silver solder joints.

Lead free solders....?

Another story......?



03/01/2021 11:15:27

Hi Brian.

Check my personal profile. Relevant?

Then see personal message.

Regards Keith

Thread: Calor gas butane workshop radiant heater
24/12/2020 00:46:22

Is this for real?

The guy is being fobbed off by a dealer who probably knows 3/5 of not very much of what he is selling (?)

There are a lot of them about!

Smelling fumes, carbon monoxide alarms, water in the combustion gases....

Forget that, this dealer should be offering the opportunity to turn lead into gold with this equipment. I'm off to the church roof with this heater. 😂




23/12/2020 17:32:14

Hi Sam.

The dealer is pulling your chain!

The amount of oxygen in the air is just under 20% and, I believe, has been since God was a boy. Sounds like a piece of special kit being given away on a £50 heater. You won't get it on a propane torch no matter how much you pay. 😀

Take it back and offer to light and run it in his office!

Don't mess about with any settings or valves. If you're cold, light your brazing torch!



Thread: Soft soldering aluminised tube ?
09/12/2020 13:10:19

Hi Tim

Simply use a liquid soft soldering flux SPECIFICALLY for aluminium. Follow this with 60/40 tin/lead solder.

Or you could adopt a cheaper option of using a soft solder wire with a flux core suitable for aluminium. It's cheaper because you're buying less flux and in a form that can be sent through the post at minimum cost.

You know where to find both items!🤔

What puzzles me is why you didn't ring them in the first place. One phone call and you get the advice and materials.

Best wishes


Thread: Brazing copper
04/12/2020 12:53:53

No need to correct you.

But why the French would want to use a 5% silver alloy and not a simple 7% phosphorus copper baffles me

The joint strength is the same ie that of annealed copper.

The brazing temperature with silver is about 20° lower. (Read the small print relating to the brazing temperature of these alloys!)

The corrosion resistance of the filler metal is better than the parent material. Really?

For which, the Frenchman pays an extra £35 or €40 per kg for his filler.

Feel free to follow if you are so inclined but even their gas fired water heaters don't have a silver bearing alloy for their copper to copper joints and experience no problems. Been there!


02/12/2020 23:30:48

And plumbing fittings ensure that there is an overlap between the components.

And the reason......?


02/12/2020 22:47:47

Hi Andrew,

There you go, all brazed joints are designed in shear for maximum strength.

That means there is an overlap between the two components.

All the text books and British standards say so.



02/12/2020 21:12:59

Hi Andrew

Be wary, very wary.

Obviously Martin believes that you are going to run your engine on gas. A coal fired boiler produces a hot sulphur bearing atmosphere that destroys joints made with copper phosphorus alloys. Depending on the quality of joint, your engine might run for a couple of occasions. Not a problem if you enyoy building the boiler and subsequent ones. Can't believe that suggestion!

As regards using oxy-acetylene, be equally careful. Such torches in the hands of an amateur creates more problems than it solves. Unless you make sure that you know what you want to achieve and how to do it, a whole catalogue of disasters awaits. Melted copper and brass, weak joints caused by the filler metal not penetrating the joint, excessive use of silver solder.

Make sure you use the experience and knowledge of someone who knows. Check the members profile.

Brazing is a very simple process as long as you understand it. If you don't then expect problems . Talk to your material suppliers and people who understand the process.

Why do you think that professional boiler makers charge what they do?

Mind how you go.

Get professional advice.


Thread: Welding aluminium
19/11/2020 09:04:19

Hi Alan,

Technoweld is readily available from here.

I've not been to an exhibition for awhile, but I seem to recall that buying without the demo is cheaper


But you can watch video clips to remind you how to use it.



Thread: Composite washers for Bullfinch and Sievert propane torches
15/11/2020 13:23:33

I am confused!

My sievert torch is a pro 86. The washers fit between the burner and neck tube. The burners concerned are 3938 - 41 and 2941 - 44. These are the ones sold by CuP so they are not suitable for you - even gold plated!

There isn't a washer between handle and neck tube. You will get a gas leak here if the connection is not nipped up tight.

I share Simon's experience when changing burners during demonstrations of sievert torches. I did learn eventually!

Sorry that I can't be of more help.


Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!

Find Model Engineer & Model Engineers' Workshop

Support Our Partners
Eccentric July 5 2018
Eccentric Engineering
Subscription Offer

Latest "For Sale" Ads
Latest "Wanted" Ads
Get In Touch!

Do you want to contact the Model Engineer and Model Engineers' Workshop team?

You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.

Click THIS LINK for full contact details.

For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.

Digital Back Issues

Social Media online

'Like' us on Facebook
Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter
 Twitter Logo

Pin us on Pinterest