Member postings for Russ B

I recently purchased this on behalf of my employer and as we keep our manuals digitally, I thought I'd share a copy here as there are none online. Hopefully once enough people have it it will be easier to find once the inevitable digital decay renders the below link dead! I will keep a copy obviously so if you cant get it below, get in touch.

**LINK**

The Naerok mill/drill is quite significantly different from today's Mill/Drills.

The most notable difference is the mill head does not slide up and down the column, instead it is fixed and the column slides through the base.

Having purchased and serviced/refurbished 5 or 6 of these round column mill/drill machines of all sizes, I can tell you this one is of a good solid quality similar to the original Rong-Fu machines of the 80's, the leadscrews have roller bearings and overall are of nice solid quality, the castings are much finer than found today. Another example is the belt tension system which is the same, but rather than just pushing the motor with one hand, (which makes it a fumble to then hold it and tighten the motor mount) a lever on the side operates a piston that pushes the motor mount out and tabbed screws make it a simple operation. This is just one example of little luxuries that you don't see anymore, no doubt due to over competitive pricing.

Rong-Fu are still going strong and make their version of the mill/drill machines and a whole load of others but I'm not sure if they're the same quality or perhaps if other copies are on the market too.

Perko7 beat me to it.

I would try a small 4 stroke engine of around 100-200cc with a large flywheel and self regulating throttle so it can increase torque without increasing engine speed too much.

**LINK**

I must admit, I’m looking for a QCTP for my second lathe, it’s a nice to have item.

Because I have two different size lathes, I like to swap tooling between them, and then the rapid height adjustment is great.

If you’ve only got the one lathe, 2 or 3 well laid out 4-way tool posts is probably quicker than a QCTP!

I can't remove the "wrong" drawing in the original post, despite removing it from my album.

Here is the correct image.... I hope....

dwg fixed at that link - I'll change the one in my album now

That was a hell of a headache, not as simple as I first thought. The way I'd constrained the sheet metal in the 3D software led to a wonky box who's edges didn't align!!

Small, but very very important changes to almost every dimension on the drawing pulls everything in to perfect alignment.

Edited By Russ B on 05/01/2018 15:27:51

The angles on the sheet metal are wrong, I'm just trying to get my head around it....

If you look at the Top notation, it doesn't feature a folded edge, so the standard 17cm card targets are slid in from the top.

I have silenced a larger catcher which has 5 knock down targets inside by hanging a piece of rubber about an inch from the back of the catcher - you just get a muffled dud when the pellet hits.

I've never really been a target shooter or hunter, I just know I enjoy shooting. Lately I've found I get bored of shooting paper targets wrapped around fence posts etc pretty quickly and there's no continuity between sessions which could be weeks or months apart.

I plan to set out a small range out of the back of one the old stables at my Dads. Even if it's raining we can still sit/stand/kneel and have a pop and a cuppa in the dry.

I'll have something like 10, 20 and 30 yard targets for my scoped gas ram, and also 10, 15 and 20 yard targets for my dads iron sighted springer BSA Airsporter mk1. Each will be fitted with 17cm "Bisley 5 target" cards. We'll take one shot at each of the 5 target at each distance on one range, inbetween we'll score, and put 8mm white stickers over the holes, and then swap to scope/iron and go again. We can then date and keep the card and perhaps scribble a few notes on the back, wind/weather conditions etc.

The idea is to just make things a bit more fun and provide measurable results/continuity between sessions. I hope to extend the ranges to 50 yards scoped and 30 yards iron sights. I want plenty of target boxes so once each target on the scope and iron sight range has a fresh card, no one has to walk up and down between shots blocking the lane.

I hope that makes sense =)

Edited By Russ B on 05/01/2018 13:40:28

Here is a link to the drawing, it looks to have lost quality above. Note, you don't need to sign up for a Dropbox account to get the file, but the might try steering you in to it as it is free.

If you print this carefully at A3, it might just come out 1:1 as this is how I drew it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t46vbb9iz5tjimo/DGA.jpg?dl=0

Edited By Russ B on 05/01/2018 12:02:06

The plan is to mark out the steel and then cut out the full trapezoid, then the clip the corners off as show and then get busy with the box/pan folding, finishing off the +90° angles by hand unless I can machine a new "thing" for my 3-in-1 machine that will help me do it, since I'll have a lot of them to do. The tac weld them together and tack the assembly to a vertical piece of 50 or 60mm box or U channel or something I can easily attach to 2" wooden pegs.

I want 6 to 10 17cm pellet traps and at £10-15 each, it soon adds up!

I've got a load of cold roll 0.7mm steel pre cut to 12" wide and a 3-in-1 12" sheet metal machine, so I've decided to just make my own. Here are the drawings if anyone's interested.

This drawing is for the top, bottom and sides. These can be spot/tack welded or riveted together and are designed to be attached to a vertical piece of steel or wood if you like. I'll be using whatever I have to hand, likely a bit of angle iron. Note the angles are beyond 90° so I guess I'll be finishing off the fold by hammering over a piece of metal or something (I'm not a sheet metal worker, I'll just keep hitting it till it makes sense)

Edited By Russ B on 05/01/2018 11:46:07

The Honda EU10i, EU20i and EU30i were always astounding quiet in the pits and paddock area - but your not going to pick one of those up anytime soon for a few hundred quid! (1kw, 2kw and 3kw respectively)

You could walk past an EU30i onload with a set of tyre warmers on and not even realise it was on. They’ve got enough power to run the warmers and the microwave at the same time, but not warmers and the kettle.

The inverter regulates the engine rpm, so when output is low, the engine rpm drops, unlike a traditional vacuum controlled genny. The inverter corrects the frequncy and the fancier the inverter, the higher/lower range the generator can operate at. An expensive Honda might be 5% more efficient, that’s 5% less load on the engine.

Neil,

This is on my "to try" list for lost casting. I like that it has such a low print temperature (70°C) - I hope to be able to easily smooth the surface with flame.

https://www.imakr.com/en/home/611-emate-low-temperature-filament.html

Edited By Russ B on 21/12/2017 14:07:57

As for the euro standard cutters, you can make your own from gauge plate and heat treat - I guess a single cutting edge would be fine. I'd balance the cutter with counter weights secured to the unused blade slot or it'll probably start to walk around the shop.......

If you need a dust extractor I have a brand new 1hp 3PH Siemens side channel exhauster and a load of 2" vac hose, free to you next time your passing. You'd have to keep the blower clean, so it would need to be an enclosed filter with the blower on the clean side. I was thinking two steel drums with a manifold made from two lids and a tangential inlet, one detachable to catch the fall out below, and one above with an internal 1/2" cage, 1/2" from the drum, so the filter material gets sucked up into the cage. You can buy the filter material on a roll cheap and add a sewing machine to your workshop skill set!

The only snag I can see would be the side channel type blowers tend to be more about creating pressure than moving volumes of air, so I'd have to check the velocity in a 2" pipe is high enough to carry wood chips (known as the interstitial velocity) but I have stacks of data on these values for a wealth of different material and particle size distributions. If it can't move the chip, the solution is a smaller diameter hose to increase velocity, we could make it work!

Ensure the adjusting the screw is properly set and locked, locking was hit and miss on mine, I ended up cleaning it out with solvent and applying thread lock.

Also if you feel a notch, check the actuating shaft for damage, the ramp on mine was damaged, a thin layer of hard face weld, dressed with an angle grinder and polished with a stone provides a lasting solution without having to remake the shaft. It's a tricky weld as you don't want too much heat in the small shaft, but too low a voltage will give an undesired convex bead, making dressing it back harder, but it's not beyond the amateur. I'd practice on a piece of round bar first. I never fixed mine in the end, it was still usable but force required was becoming (very) excessive. I planned to use a dremel tool to make a vee notch up the centre of the ramp, on the actuating shaft, 1/2 to 2/3 the total width, and then use the remaining edges right and left as a reference to dress the hard face flat with diamond stones.

Yes, he's back on again this Sunday for another interesting program.

Neil, you missed "if your lucky" inbetween the words quill and column..........and you also just assumed the spindle is running true inside the quill........

Check the 360 saddle is true on the XZ plane, as described (or by any other means) if this is true to the XZ plane (aka front face of the column) - move on and check the quill is parallel by extending it, and mounting a dti on the column and then run the milling head up and down dialing in the column left to right (nice and easy its a rotating head after all) but also front to back (hand scraping or machining required - not so easy!!) 

once you've got or know the quill is true to the column in the XZ plane and XY plane as above, and you know you're 360 face is also true, only then can you start making assumptions as bold as suggesting the spindle, inside the quill, the mating between the quill and 360 face, and the mating between the face of the 360 and dovetail attaching it the column are ALL in alignment....... and you're still not 100% because you've still not check that the spindle inside the quill is running true, and this is where rollies dads method comes in to play.

For the record, my 360 face was ok on the vertical saddle, but the spindle was out of alignment. I went for the quick option as you suggest here Neil and it came back to bit me, every time I moved the Z axis, I drifted off the X,Y co-ordinate because I'd assumed my quill, and the spindle inside that quill were both true to the column - silly silly mistake. The spindle inside the quill was slighty out, but no big drama, the quill however was pointing towards the column! So if I shimmed the column to get the spindle level to the table, the Y co-ordinate would drift as I wound the head up and down.

Check all this once, and use the machine for life, and take neat little shortcuts as you suggest, with confidence.

Edited By Russ B on 13/11/2017 13:04:58

I just editied that to add a missing step, so if you've just read it, and this post wasn't already underneath, I apologise the edit started 2/3rds of the way down.....

I might have to edit it again, but it's now Friday beer'o'clock on my side of the world - and since its 34c and blazing sunny, I'm off to slap on some sun cream and head to the beer garden !!

Sorry if this a bit pushy, but here's what I'd do and indeed what I did on my own BF-20..... it's not a quick fix, but it's a good thing to know.

Tram the tilting head to the table with a dti, to ensure she's not rotated left to right.

Tram it front to back, to see if she's tilting forwards or backwards.

Great, lets, say it's perfectly square - you now have two useless pieces of information, relative only to an arbitrary reference because you've assumed your dovetail column is perpendicular in two planes AND you've assumed the rotating circular surface of the vertical saddle is also square in two planes....... (or you used an engineers square, and assumed or accept the inaccuracy of your square/surfaces/measurements) - often with machines of far eastern origin, if they're not square at every step of the way and they don't mind. They just grind a bit off (usually off one single bit) here and there to get the final figures - as soon as your start raising and lowering the head, or rotating the mill head, you're assuming things move square and true, and they probably dont.

Best not to assume anything these days.

so let's go back a step and try to derive accuracy, assuming only reasonable things. Remove the table from the equation, forget it exists for now, so dont worry about that bolted connection . You now have a column, a saddle with a 360 degree surface, and a spindle axis. Its not unreasonable to assume your column dovetail was machined in a single pass and is pretty much square and true, if you've got a micrometer you could check it's parallel, but I don't think you'll gain much.

Imagine now, that this column is laid down in front of you, with the spindle box on the left, as a lathe would be setout. (forget the table exists, remove it from your imagination). Now, you have a lathe without a saddle for a tool post, but who's spindle box can rotate on its own saddle.

To check this rotating face is parallel in two planes, isn't easy, since right and left, you have no column, no reference, and probably isn't necessary unless you're attempting to split the atom in your shed (it's been done.....) but you can check it in one plane ((THIS IS OPTIONAL, NICE TO KNOW KINDA THING)), along the axis of the column. Simply move the saddle to centre, and mount a DTI in the spindle. Rotate the spindle box 360 degrees, taking 4 measurements as you pass the lower face of each dovetail - making sure you don't move the guage.

assuming you're 360 saddle is true..... move on.

now check out rollies dads method of spindle alignment, you can adjust very easily to align it towards or away from you (imagining it's laid down like a lathe) - however if you're spindle is pointing up or down along the axis of the "bed" (again, imagining its a lathe) - this is a more serious issue, it means the alignment of the quill bore, is knackered - the only option is to remachine the circular face on the back to correct the up/down movement - if it's out in the other plane.... it doesn't actually matter that much (imagine it being mounted on a hinge like a door, opening and closing, it doesn't matter where it swings, so long at it's not dropping or lifting along the axis of the column......)

still with me?

no, me neither.........

so if you successfully determined that your 360 rotating face, is square, and you've determined that your quill isn't pointing towards or away from column, then you can now go back to square one (almost)

"Tram the tilting head to the table with a dti, to ensure she's not rotated left to right.

Tram it front to back, to see if she's tilting forwards or backwards."

You can't tram left and right to the table, because you don't know if your spindle is aligned to the column unless you've just done the rollies dads method to alight the spindle left/right. So now when assuming you've done that, when you "Tram the tilting head to the table with a dti, to ensure she's not rotated left to right." - the difference is - if you're out, it's the column that's out, and not any errors in the alignment of the rotating spindle box or the trueness of the 360deg spinning face.

The only accuracy you're accepting, is the spindle runnout - which can easily be quantified - you actually already have all the measurements you needed to know from the rollies dads method, so you can acutally offset then values and incorporate this - but seriously, this is getting silly, but its there if you want perfection, 

I'd consider that a mechanical QED (almost)..... now, if you still need that shim, you know you're not offsetting an error in your spindle to column alignment.........

that was taxing....... I'd started writing an article for the magazine but I'm a long way from home right now, so don't have it.... this is all off the top of my head, but I think this is right, I spent quite a while working this out - the measurement and checks are actually simple in the end if you think about it........

Edited By Russ B on 10/11/2017 08:18:56

I've enjoyed following this thread.

I think the lack of availability of scraping tools and consumables is perhaps a contributing factor to the decline of the skill??

Could someone give Ketan a nudge at Arc, it would be good to get some red/blue Volkcorp Canode in stock, and perhaps a small section dedicated to hand scraping bits and pieces!