Member postings for Russ B

I also clean out my 2-stroke exhaust chambers the same way, you can see a ring of fire/heat moving down the chamber as it burns off 20-30 years of old oil and a smoke screen is deployed, definetely not a technique I'd recommend in an urban environment, but I think you'll get away with a Tilley! I tried caustic soda but it wasn't enough for 30 year old chambers lined with perforated steel for sound deadening, I think the perforations and the gap behind was just solid with unburnt oil/tar - messy and nasty stuff, at least with oxy/propane or acetylene you're in control of the oxygen and it done and dusted in as much time as it takes to safely setup. Caustic soda on brass isn't something I've tried, but I can guarantee it'll turn any aluminium in comes into contact with, in to dust!

That aside, mine starts pulsing after several hours when it needs a few pumps of pressure, thats all

Les, John, I'm afraid time, tiredness and the other half watching TV has got the better of me tonight so this will have to wait, I'll get grumbled out if I trip the RCD which can happen from time to time when I'm messing with stuff I shouldn't be although I don't recall this ever cause it to happen!

John, this testing seems interesting, I presume D4, D7 and D2 are my 3 diodes, I'll have a look and see if they're referenced similarly. Do you have any diagrams or could point me to an image online/describe which is which.

Les, this information only partially covers your request, more information to come tonight.

No information on the motor plate, perhaps its once had a sticker on it, but I doubt it!

The lathe itself has a bit of info, listing 240v, 50hz, 3.5A and 50-2500rpm (via 2 belt ratios).

The speed controller board lists:

BC2000-TB
DC Motor Controller

Input 115/230VAC, 50/60hz, 1PH, 9A
Armature 0-90/0-180VDC, 6A
Field 100/200VDC, 1A

Best Control Inc. Made in Taiwan

The Original Diodes (still in place) read D8020L 9E5HB
The SCR's were S6025L 9A3LV, and I replaced that with an S6025L OE126 - and after reading your comments and looking into it, I believe the L equals relates to an insulated tab.

As for wiring, could I refer you to page 13 on the manual linked above, with the exception that my P1 and P3 terminals are reversed vs this image (if I am to trust the printing on the circuit board). And also my machine is configured with a single fuse in the incoming live, and another in the motor A+ side, neither of which have been problamatic so far (both F5A if I recall correctly but don't hold me to that). My 3pin wall plug had a 3A fuse which is perhaps a little low if the lathes 3.5A rating plate is to be trused but I thought it would be ok for testing without load. I did try a 5A, it blew that too.

I will recap the missing points tonight, retest the SCR's and Diodes and also retest to ensure I'm providing accurate information, because I don't understand fully what is going on it would to easy for me to get some information wrong as it's been a little while since I tested it.

John,

I wrapped my head around the concept of the full wave bridge using SCR's to control the output, but I'm afraid the purpose of the diode across the output is beyond my understanding, when I think of a diode I think of a check valve (converting in to my more familiar mechanical/pneumatic engineering knowledge). Also these have 3 pins, I don't know if each one is a pair of diodes sharing a common annode/cathode or if one pin floats - I should know because I tested them and believed them to function, I have perhaps have misunderstood them but without reviewing the data sheet and what/how I tested them I can't say either way.

As for mica washers..... the board and wiring had been fettled and given that the armature was accidentally connected to the field terminal adjacent I would guess finer details like mica washers slipped the attention of whoever dissasembled it in the first place. That said, when I tested it, it was on a non conductive bench, out of the machine, the heat sink was attached, however where as the SCR's and Diodes connected dry, directly to the annodised aluminium, I slipped a 0.3mm thermal pad under them believing it would be useful?

I feel like I shouldn't be touching this at all but as it didn't work, I felt I had nothing to lose and when I identified a clearly faulty SCR I thought I'd cracked it! I hope I haven't done more harm that good!

Sorry Les,

110v was measured at the armature connections.

I don't think there is a field, its a brushed permenant magnet motor, all in good condition and running smoothly to my untrained eye.

The manaul is here Link I didn't do the link correctly last time.

This link is also referencing a KBIC, and later refers to two models, a BC2000 and a BC2200, and everything in it, seems to match almost exactly to the board in hand.

I have taken things like the rotary switch and NVR etc out of circuit although I have tested them all and they do work as they should so I'm focused on the board. There was also some sort of filter box or something, I recall trying with and without it, it made no difference before or after changing the S6025L thyristor

Hi,

The motor just has two wires, the documentation I found online for the BC2000-TA explained to me what the F+ and F- terminals were for, and that is how I knew whoever connected the motor had done so by mistake.

When I measured 110v I had the board wired correctly (to the best of my knowledge and by the book) - I assumed this was because one of the thyristors was stuck closed circuit and passing half the rectified AC sine straight though (again, I'm not knowledgeble on this stuff, but at the time I think I recall seeing that one thyristor was connected to one of the diodes, and the other thyristors was connected to the other diode, so I assume they combined the two halves of the AC in varying amounts, and the 3rd diode I guess did something else, but, I don't know, I'm not really clued up on complex electronics like this, I can wire up basic machines and follow diagrams, that's about it!)

I have an issue on a motor speed controller that I've been unable to solve (I seem to have created or uncovered a different issue!?)

This lathe has never run and the guy who gave me it had been tinkering with stuff, he perhaps knew even less than I do as I found one of the motor wires connected to field terminal by mistake, I'm not sure if this could have damaged something.

Any, there was a bank of 3 diodes and 2 thyristors, all but one thyristor seemed to function as it should so I went ahead an replace it with a like for like unit.

The machine was constantly outputting 110v DC seemingly regardless of pot position (but it did pop the 3a or 5a plug fuse when turned up despite not changing the voltage) - now after changing the tyhristor, it just trips the mains out.

I checked the motor brushes and communtator and after cleaning it all seems absolutely fine, it'll run from a little 9v radio battery smooth as silk, and generates quite a bit of power, when run from a 12v supply, more smooth running, more speed, more power, it looks good.

I'm afraid my knowledge on this repair comes from a google search and a bench test based on my limited knowledge of what is to me, a complex piece of electronics.

Can anyone recommend or offer any expert advice or diagnosis/repair services please, I believe these boards are known universally as KBIC or something. Mine is a BC2000-tb and there is a comprehensive manual online detailing many many different things, wiring configurations and all sorts, it seems like quite a useful board...... if it worked.

+1 for this comment

I have smooth metallic white sparkle worktops in the garage, when I'm rebuilding engines I have an area set aside for circling and naming unique bolts/valve shims etc.

When I got my Myford 280 I scanned the manual and sales brochure that came with it, and shared it around. Since then, multiple copies seem to have surfaced on the web for £10-20 for a download or paper copy, and I can't find the free link that I shared originally.

Don't pay for 1's and 0's, download and share please.

Manual

Brochure

Edited By Russ B on 23/11/2021 15:28:06

After a good clean, the motor works perfectly and spins smoothly on the bench from a little 9v battery, and consumes around 200ma on 12v.

I went on to do the light bulb test on the motor output and found constant 110vdc with a 50hz flicker which was a big clue..... as I see it with my very basic electrical knowledge, the board uses 3 diodes and 2 SCR's, one SCR for each half of the rectified AC sine, and one of them was stuck closed, allowing the 110v flicker as half the AC flowed constantly.

New parts ordered sub £10, I think I'll change the pair and keep the old one as a spare, time will tell if my diagnosis is accurate but I did test the SCR with the 2v given by the diode test function on my meter (spec sheet says it should switch at half that) and one opened and closed nicely, the other was just constantly passing current no matter what I did to try and shut it.

Hopefully nothing else is damaged. All the diodes played nicely, nothing on the board appears burnt or damaged.

Anthony, I love the new thread title

My motor (now) runs perfectly smoothly and spins up in just a fraction of a second off a little 9v battery much to my surprise, and draws 190 to 210ma when connected to a 3a 12v regulated supply. If I brake the shaft with my fingers it’ll draw around an amp as it slows to just a few revolutions per second.

Testing the resistance however, I have just 4ohms all round, and in fact, 4 ohms between any two at any angle, i don’t know if this is right, but it’s all very consistent.

I’m not sure what was going on with my motor, initially I couldn’t get any sense out of the resistance it was jumping all over, I cleaned up the contacts with a soft brass suede brush and then it all seemed to measure as above.

I’ve no professional expertise here bar 6 months studying DC and AC theory as part of mechanical engineering qualifications - i’m just handy at working stuff out, I assume the lower resistance is due to my higher output (claimed) 750w motor. The DC controller quite an output of 0-180vdc

I will research this light bulb test, I assume it’s a circa 50w 240vac light across the motor controller output.

Anthony,

Thanks for another update and the resistance values new vs old, I will be checking exactly the same thing later tonight as my motor struggles to turn when run off a little 9v battery and I believe if the motor is good, it should spin smoothly and quietly even on a battery as small as this.

Could you do me a favour, and measure the current when the new motor is connected to a 12v supply, it should be circa 100-200ma if my googling is accurate - I'm not sure I would suggest doing the same with the old motor unless you can limit the current to protect your meter somehow.

The Chester DB7 I'm working on for a friend is a similar age to your clarke machine, and I think under the fancy clothes, they are very similar machines, although this one has had a pretty hard life by the looks of it!!

I have a Myford 280 and a Warco Super Mini (basically identical to your Clarke but green!). Now if you think a Myford Super7 is a sturdy lathe, or the Myford 254 is supreme, wait till you see a Myford 280!! It's a hell of a piece of kit. I love them both, they are both excellet machines, I'd buy another chinese lathe tomorrow if I needed one. The myford, I wouldn't replace, great machine, too expensive, unjustified. When I bought it, they were cheap.

Fuses aside for a moment….. motor testing didn’t check out, I think there may be an issue with the brushes or commutator which will require investigating thoroughly.

Well, I finally got round to looking at this machine. Can anyone help me confirm a few things?

The main plug had a 3 amp fuse in it, which after testing & sorting a few things.... blew as soon as I pressed go, but it did spring to life very briefly and all appeared fine! Since the machine is (should be) protected by the small internal fuses, I think the main plug fuse can be 5 or 10 amp to protect the cable alone, however....... as below...

I notice it has a pair of 10 amp fuses in the back, should these be 5amp fast acting, there is no information in the Chester Manual or on the parts diagram about any of the fuses rating or types - good old Chinese manuals!

I'm reluctant to try a 5 amp main fuse till I know what the control board and motor fuses should be.

I found a couple of faults, the side panel interlock was smashed, and the chuck guard interlock wasn't quite positioned correctly.

I also found that the neutral line (which runs though the stop switch and interlocks not as per above) had been connected to a terminal called F- which is right next to L2..... a mistake perhaps? It runs though some sort of separate EMI filter first that is glued to the bottom of the enclosure.

I tested the NRV and that works and latches as it should when the control board is disconnected. Looking at the wiring, someone has been at this in a big way which is never comforting, either that or the Chinese are fond of sticking insulated crimp terminals in various lines to and from the various switches, board, motor etc etc. I tested the pot and apart from going though a dodgy almost open circuit patch just before full speed, it checks out exactly as it should.

When I tried to start the machine, I had to pot turned to minimum. I have now disconnected the drive belts and will try 9v and 12v across the motor while measuring current to quickly assess general motor health/cleanliness.

I’m picking up a faulty DB7S tonight, so this might well come in handy, thanks!

He said the motor won’t run, but he seems to think someone’s tested the motor and it checks out ok, and i’m guessing he’s checked all the internal fuses as he said there were a load, I wonder what mysteries I’ll find!

I only the buy the best filament for final parts as cheap stuff can (but doesn’t always) cause terrible quality prints. I’m typically paying £20-£25 a kg for Verbatim branded filament and £15 ish for cheap draft quality filament.

1kg goes a very long way, as most parts aren’t solid infill (especially test fits and draft parts), they’re a shell with a matrix inside, which can work out to be tougher though more flexibility (although this part probably is solid). I’d guess it’s no more than 10g, so you could make around 100 finished parts, and typical standard 3d prints are around 25% infill and you’d get double or triple the quantity.

I just printed a pair of exhaust manifolds for a classic Honda I’m restoring, bores have to be machined as it’s not super accurate, but test fit was spot on, now thinking about quotes for laser/water cutting from 5-6mm aluminium, it’s handy to have that ability! I did some carburettor adapters for fittings webber carbs years back, easy to knock out 5+ revisions inc test fits and tweaks in a day, and due to the CAD side of things I was able to properly design the flow though the part to ensure smooth transition between flanges.

Great to see an email notification pop up from you relating to a thread update!! I've loved this from the start!

Thanks for putting it all online!

I think you may have just got a bad one, my blade tension can't be adjusted by any other means, but it works perfectly fine, so I see no reason why it might need to be changed.

Perhaps one defect accoutns for you both your complaints, a stray guide perhaps not holding the blade vertical, and as a result, shortening the correct route of 1140mm in length preventing you from tightening as the blade its literally cutting corners?

Edited By Russ B on 05/11/2020 13:06:58

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..................I think I might have unknowingly had the brushed version? it did a few good jobs albeit at a drastically reduced speed vs my 240v/110v gear but hammered my 4ah battery, which normally lasts a week or more of daily odd jobs M16-M20/pipe/flanges etc on the 1/2" impact gun.

I sold it practially brand new for about what I paid for it (£29.99 without battery/charger)

I think I'll keep an eye out for this brushless version, it took me so long (12+ months!) to find to the first one I got I won't hold my breath