Sash weights.

Hello All,

Yesterday I took home a load of old sash & case window weights

from the site I am working at ,I took the ones marked CARRON because I have heard of that foundry Most of them were about 38mm rough Ø and the ones from the 5 very large windows were approx 78mm rough Ø so today with the rain here [and me being a bricklayer] I spent the day machining the weights and they have machined a treat, very nice finish and no blow holes. So I now have 10 finished at Øs off between 32mm and 35mm at lengths off approx 310mm. The large ones are now at a shade over 69mm Ø and 340mm in length, but I only got 4 of those as the others are not marked Carron and looked to be rougher. So I guess I scored with those weights.

I might actually try 1 of the unmarked ones and see how they are.

Regards,

Raymond.

Raymond

Lucky chap they will be lovely late victorian cast iron. and please do not knock being a bricklayer good ones down this way are like hens teeth and much in demand. Carron sounds like the name of the foundry could well be Welsh, Just think of all these cast iron pistons you name it.

Bob

Wow what a find sash weights use to be quite common but are now quite rare, I was given one by a friend that I've more or less consummed on engine builds.

Carron iron works was in Scotland Lanarkshire I think it was famous for casting Cannon barrels.

You have to be carfull with the eye end of the weight that was the top end when they were cast and is where the rubish collects, also be carfull you don't end up with a cast steel weight they are as tuff as old boots and next to imposible to machine with light home machinery.

Stew

Hi Springbok , Stewart

Springbok, I was not "knocking" being a bricklayer, as I like my trade very much what I meant was with the rain I could not get any work done today so had a day off. I would not change my trade for any other.

Stewart, I cut off about 40mm from each end before machining also I did all the machining on my Warco GH750 lathe but also have a DSG if it was needed I am going to have a look about for any more marked Carron tomorrow.

I will also test out 1 of the unmarked weights tomorrow evening.

Regards,

Raymond.

You jammy git Raymond!

The only sash weight I've been able to get my claws on was so badly chilled starret hacksaw blades bounced clean off

Neil

Neil,

I must have some from the same batch as you! John Bogs mentioned using sash weights in another forum so I went to the reclaimed building materials site and got a few. Couldn't touch them even with an angle grinder! They have sat under my bench ever since. Maybe I should have another try....

John

Carron Iron Foundry, Falkirk, Scotland.

Casters of the carronade, a small 19th century naval cannon. A sort of swivel gun.

And a horde of other items.

All gone, like so many others.

I used to have a Carron stove (aga type) the castings were very good, some very fine thin walled stuff.. I believe the foundry started there because of the wood and water power available, later coal, like most of the early works.

Hi all

Winter is the time to fix the weights if you have a fireplace.

A while back I acquired a large 45mm shaft differential pinion wheel about 250mm long it had a chipped tooth but otherwise was fine. Trouble was it was really hard, even at the slowest speed and feed and carbide tooling using a heavy lathe I could not turn it. clearly it was heat treated alloy steel, really tough. It needed to be annealed. Not having a furnace I wondered if it could be heat treated in the family fire place! Its been cold of late; time for a nice fire. I simply put the piece on the fire and let it soak, I left it there over 3 separate burns. I don't know what temperature it reached although one time i noted it was a dark red. I just let it cool down in the ashes each time.

Now it turns well, with the mirror finish you sometimes get with alloy steel. Soon it will find its way into a spindle.

I assume the same will apply with chilled cast Iron sash weights or the like.

Cheers

John

Funny you should mention that. A couple of months ago I needed an angle grinder to cut in half a thin weight to get it into the stove. (yes I needed a fire in May) But 5 days soaking hasn't made it hacksaw friendly. Maybe a wood fire doesn't get hot enough so I'll be givnig eh other half a month over winter to see if that helps.

Edited By Bazyle on 02/08/2012 13:55:24

The last lot of weights I got were about the same size as yours (38 mm), when I was collecting them , I dropped one on top of the rest of them, and bang, it snapped in half, a silvery white fracture. I tried it in the lathe with a carbide tool, the outer skin came off OK, then the bar took the edge of the tool offas if it were a bit of mild steel. The rest of the weights are OK, but I like the fatter ones if I can get them, I'v had some about 60/65 mm dia., never seen a foundry name on any yet. Must get to a demolition yard, there are plenty of demo bits in Christchurch, they have that much that the stuff is being sold at half its usual price. Ian S C

Mention of sash weights takes me back a bit. Sixty years ago, I was an apprentice working on a large manor house restoration. One job was to replace all the sash cords before the decorators came and the job fell to me. (assume it was not because I was the best but at 17, the cheapest on the job). Never thought that weights could be any good as turning material. I have seen many in the past but not lately. Now that I have access to a lathe I will keep a look out at my local demolition yard.

Don't know if you can soften cast iron by heating in a fire but worth a try. I picked up a couple of weighing scale 4Lb weights recently and those turned up nicely. Ideal for flywheels on small engines.

Don't try and soften chilled flywheel castings in the fire, if you want them to come out remotely circular afterwards

My 'invulnerable' sash weight is destined to become a counter weight for the head of my mill to replace the spring arrangement (which reduces travel and isn't very good).

Neil

My weights were counterweights on vertically opening gates in my brother in laws pig sheds, two bundles of six, one at each end of the gate. Not sure how many gates, must have been about twenty. Ian S C

I have been using sash weights for making parts for model engines for many years, and have yet to come across one that I was unable to 'skin'.

They were usually cast loop side down, as the loop had to be good, to carry the weight, maybe for hundreds of years. I cut about 3" off the blunt end by grinding around it with an angle grinder, then a little tap with a big hammer then breaks off all the dross bearing material.

That then allows you to get under the skin on this broken off end, and by taking a cut of around 20 to 30 thou deep with a tipped tool, the complete hard skin can easily be peeled off.

I still have about a dozen in stock, at a cost of about 30p each from my local scrap yard. I suppose you could go around the plastic window installers and see if they have taken any out, maybe even ask them to save them for you.

On average, I can get 13" of 1 & 3/16" diameter bar out of each one. Well seasoned very fine grained material that cuts like a dream and comes up with a finish almost like chrome.

John

Yes - coal; very much so! There is a significant connection, of course, with James Watt. John Roebuck, one of the Carron Foundry's co-founders, was one of Watt's earliest patrons as he required one of the 'new' type engines to drain his coal mine. Without Roebuck, Watt may never have progressed beyond 'model' engineering!

Diane

HI John,

My understanding was that the "old" pre 1920's were all cast as you describe and nice stuff, after that the weights were cast every which way and those are the ones that are useless for most things.

I guess there will be foundrys that stuck to the original methods for a quite a period, until they got priced out!

You are most probably quite right Steve.

I was given a modern weight that was over 3" diameter, most probably a door balance weight, and although still cast iron, it was terribly tough, but I still made some nice tooling for my lathe and mill out of it.

The secret is getting the skin off in one cut, by getting underneath it. Try to skim with normal cuts and not only will you take out most of your tooling, the skin that is left will go diamond hard.

You can usually tell the later ones, they seemed to be 'end of day' pours, somewhere to get rid of what is left in the crucible without wasting it. The end 3" or 4" (which I always cut off) is absolutely almost all dross, and is impossible to turn because of all the inclusion, I have tried to and failed miserably.

You would be amazed at what can be found out there. If it is cast and rusty, any shape, by skinning it, it can produce some wonderful materials, for free. Sometimes it turns out to be cast steel, a little tough, but still good for lots of things.

I'm not saying that you would get good results using a mini mill or lathe, you do need a bit of power in your machines to get into the materials in the first place. I have skinned bars for other people and then they turn up lovely on any machine.

John

Easist way to see if you are wasting your time is to bang one on the floor and snap it.

If it's dull grey then save it, if its shiny silver it's chilled. Remember sash weights were cast out of the last run of the ladle to use all the iron up, early victorian recycling.

I've worked in a few foundries the last one was an agricultural one, in all meanings. The load was all scrap, some not even iron, shovelled in from the top and down the chimney. We made bits and pieces, including pulleys and mower parts. Any small part was very likely to be chilled. At the end of the pour all that was left was "recycled" some into small moulds eg flywheels, some into "homers", some into holes made in the sand with a stick. A lot of this stuff must still be circulating, and from the hundreds of other small foundries, no wonder some is rubbish.