By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by Allendale-Ultrasonics

Model Engineers Boiler Test Code

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
Tony Wood22/09/2011 13:59:41
4 forum posts

I am posting in my capacity as chairman of the Model Engineering Liaison Group.

The Group regularly reviews the model engineers boiler test code (the Blue Book) and at our meeting last week it was agreed that the next review should be undertaken over the coming months. It is essential that as many clubs, societies and individuals as possible are aware of the review and of the opportunity for them to put forward comments and suggestions.

The following notice will hopefully be appearing in the next issues of the model engineering press plus Old Glory and Vintage Spirit: -

The Model Engineering Liaison Group (MELG) is to undertake a revision of the model engineers boiler test code (often known as The Blue Book). The Model Engineering Liaison Group comprises representatives from the 7.1/4in Gauge Society, the Midland Federation of Model Engineers, the Northern Association of Model Engineers and the Southern Federation of Model Engineering Societies, plus Walker Midgley Insurance Brokers, Footman James Insurance Brokers and principal insurers Royal & Sun Alliance. The intention is not to change the boiler test procedure but to make the code more user friendly and consider any amendments that may be beneficial in the light of several years operational experience.

A major part of the revision is the consideration of comments and suggestions received from clubs, societies and individuals. If you have any comments which you would like to be considered they should be sent to the association or federation to which your club or society belongs or, if you prefer, they may be sent direct to the MELG chairman, Tony Wood, at Walker Midgley Insurance Brokers, Yorkshire Bank Chambers, Fargate, Sheffield S1 2HD (tonyw@walkermidgley.co.uk). The closing date for comments to be received is 31 December 2011.

Martin McDonald14/11/2012 23:14:29
4 forum posts

Can you please tell me how to obtain a copy of the model engineers' boiler test code-The Blue Book.

Many thanks,

Martin McDonald,

Carrigaline,

Co. Cork, Ireland.

AndyP15/11/2012 00:00:03
138 forum posts
9 photos

Downloadable from here under news and views.

mick H15/11/2012 08:19:02
382 forum posts
1 photos

Tony....I welcome your post as chairman of the MELG. Could you clarify what the Boiler Test Code V10 allegedly agreed on 16th August 2012 and to come into effect on 1st January 2013 is all about ? It does not seem to make life any easier, especially as for example it brings 3Bar-litre boilers into the regime. Perhaps the document that I have seen is a scam in which case I apologise for being teken in by it.

Mick

Tony Wood21/11/2012 14:14:31
4 forum posts
Posted by mick H on 15/11/2012 08:19:02:

Tony....I welcome your post as chairman of the MELG. Could you clarify what the Boiler Test Code V10 allegedly agreed on 16th August 2012 and to come into effect on 1st January 2013 is all about ? It does not seem to make life any easier, especially as for example it brings 3Bar-litre boilers into the regime. Perhaps the document that I have seen is a scam in which case I apologise for being teken in by it.

Mick

Many apologies for the delay in posting this reply

The new Test Code 2012 (the Green Book) is a rewrite of the Test Code 2008 (the Blue Book) and basically sets out the Code in a more logical order and corrects errors that had become apparent. The Test Code 2012 was well received by, and accepted at, the Northern Association delegates meeting in October and the overall feedback received so far has been very positive. The Test Code 2012 V12a has now been agreed and is going to print. It will be with the Associations and Federations shortly for onward distribution to the clubs and societies.

 

Referring to the point raised about small boilers. The testing of boilers in the UK is ‘governed’ by the Pressure Systems Safety Regulations 2000 (PSSR 2000) and PSSR 2000 applies anywhere where the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974 applies. This basically means that by law your boiler must be tested unless it is used for purely hobby activities in a none work environment. 99% of model engineering clubs and societies and model railway clubs and societies will, at one time or another, be operating steam boilers in situations where the Health and Safety at Work Act applies, where members of the public are present at open days, running days or at exhibitions where they are exhibiting and demonstrating their members work. Unfortunately there are no hard and fast guidelines delineating where the Health and Safety at Work Act applies and where it does not. The only time you are going to find out for absolute certainty is after a serious incident and not only will you be in trouble with HSE if you have got it wrong but any insurance you have may well be voidable.

 

Unlike other pressure vessels, where there is a minimum pressure under which the PSSR 2000 does not apply, PSSR 2000 applies to steam boilers regardless of the operating pressure which mean that the smallest boilers running at very low pressure must be tested in accordance with the Regulations in exactly the same way as a large industrial steam boiler running at very high pressure, for example a school science laboratory that has a Mamod must have that tested in exactly the same way as the steam boiler providing the school heating.

 

In order to be PSSR 2000 compliant every steam boiler, regardless of size, must have a Written Scheme of Examination which sets out the details of the boiler and the testing regime. Neither the current model engineers test code (Test Code 2008 - the Blue Book) nor its predecessor (Test Code 2006 – the Red Book) incorporated a Written Scheme of Examination for each boiler and hence neither Code was PSSR 2000 compliant. The new Test Code (Test Code 2012 - the Green Book) does incorporate a Written Scheme of Examination.

 

I would mention that for boilers under 3 bar litres there is a shortened version of the Written Scheme of Examination and of the Boiler Certificate.

 

It should also be considered that the insurance on a boiler may be subject to a boiler test condition, not all insurances have the same conditions and individuals should therefore check their policy for confirmation of the conditions applicable to their insurance.

 

Tony Wood

Chairman – Model Engineering Liaison Group

 

 

Edited By Tony Wood 4 on 21/11/2012 14:15:10

Joseph Ramon21/11/2012 16:04:49
avatar
109 forum posts

Hi Tony,

Is there a simple plain english guide or flow-chart that explains how to go about making your own boiler in such a way that at the end of the process it can be insured.?

Joey

fizzy21/11/2012 16:37:43
avatar
725 forum posts
62 photos

anyone fathom out how having a written scheme of examination in any way makes things safer than they are right now....with the existing examination requirements.....thought not!

Tony Wood21/11/2012 17:53:02
4 forum posts
Posted by Joseph Ramon on 21/11/2012 16:04:49:

Hi Tony,

Is there a simple plain english guide or flow-chart that explains how to go about making your own boiler in such a way that at the end of the process it can be insured.?

Joey

Joey

The quick answer is no

That said the new Test Code is no different from the old test code in that it sets out the steps required. The following is taken straight out of the Test Code 2012

The constructor of a boiler to other than a recognised design available through the model engineering trade and/or press shall produce design drawings and demonstrate to the satisfaction of the inspector, either by calculation or by well-proven example, that the design and materials used have adequate strength.

If no working pressure is stated on the drawings, or published accompanying text, the boiler shall be treated as a new design and calculations shall be produced and validated.

If a boiler is being made to a published or established design but is intended to be used at a higher pressure than that specified by the designer, it shall be treated as a new design.

Consideration should be given to the use of a build record sheet.

An inspector shall require a boiler to be examined in order to be satisfied that the requirements of paragraphs 7.4 and 7.5 are fulfilled, particularly where a boiler is already constructed and presented for examination. All prospective constructors should discuss such possible requirements with the inspector before commencing construction and the boiler should be examined at least twice during construction.

If welding is undertaken by a person who is not a coded welder the inspector shall require that weld samples be made available for inspection and testing prior to the commencement of the welding of the boiler, or that the welder shall have proof of test pieces being satisfactorily tested within the 12 months prior to the jointing being undertaken. Weld samples shall be tested by appropriate testing laboratories.

It is recommended that screw operated valves fitted on the back head of the boiler should be of the type where the spindle cannot be screwed out. The use of non captive valve spindles or fittings should not be a reason to fail a boiler. Also check that all levers and hand-wheels are securely fitted to their respective spindles.

Boiler water feed arrangements shall be by at least two independent means (two of each, or a combination of, hand pump, injector, mechanical pump, etc.). A single boiler inlet with two check valves is acceptable

Boilers shall be fitted with at least one water level gauge which where practicable is to be fitted to the boiler independently of all other fittings, including the manifold. Where practicable the fitting of gauge glass protectors is recommended.

Water level gauges shall be so constructed, mounted, or adapted such that the lowest water level visible in the gauge glass indicates that the level of water is above the firebox crown sheet.

The first thing to do is talk to your club boiler inspector and liaise with him throughout the build

The boiler is ‘insurable’ when it has passed hydraulic and steam tests

Hope that helps

Tony Wood

Tony Wood21/11/2012 17:58:54
4 forum posts
Posted by fizzy on 21/11/2012 16:37:43:

anyone fathom out how having a written scheme of examination in any way makes things safer than they are right now....with the existing examination requirements.....thought not!

The Written Scheme of Examination perhaps doesn't make things any safer but what it does do is ensure that you are complying with the Law of the Land, and hence means you avoid possible prosecution should the worst happen

Don't forget the Written Scheme of Examination needs completing only once, unless: -

the boiler changes hands when a new Written Scheme in the name of the new owner is needed

the boiler has undergone major repairs or the working pressure (Pw) has been altered when a new Written Scheme is needed

Tony Wood

fizzy21/11/2012 21:34:59
avatar
725 forum posts
62 photos

Thanks Tony - One gripe I have is with the welds. If I submit test pieces to the club inspecter then what is he supposed to do with them? If I supply them to a lab there will be a huge cost. In the past I have sent the boiler for NDT testing, and supplied the cert to the inspecter, but there seems to be no mention of this?

Springbok22/11/2012 06:42:09
avatar
879 forum posts
34 photos

Unlike other pressure vessels, where there is a minimum pressure under which the PSSR 2000 does not apply, PSSR 2000 applies to steam boilers regardless of the operating pressure which mean that the smallest boilers running at very low pressure must be tested in accordance with the Regulations in exactly the same way as a large industrial steam boiler running at very high pressure, for example a school science laboratory that has a Mamod must have that tested in exactly the same way as the steam boiler providing the school heating.

What about all the hundreds of little Mamods selling on fleabay are they now illegal. I could be wrong but I get the serious impression that people like you want to bar anyone but the companies makeing boilers. could be wrong and paying for mountains of expensive useless paperwork. synical old me as my grandchildren say... Bob

S.D.L.22/11/2012 08:39:11
88 forum posts
Posted by Springbok on 22/11/2012 06:42:09:

What about all the hundreds of little Mamods selling on fleabay are they now illegal. I could be wrong but I get the serious impression that people like you want to bar anyone but the companies makeing boilers.

That’s a bit unfair to criticise someone who has played a leading role in keeping the exemption for model engineering boilers to be tested by clubs and not need a professional.

As most Mamod boilers would not be used where there are members of the public you can run them as you want at home.

Steve Larner

Clive Hartland22/11/2012 08:43:23
avatar
1186 forum posts
30 photos

It is typical of Legislation that the paper mountain has more clout than the actual object, it seems that all this is to make it as hard as possible for anyone to make and use a steam or air pressure vessels as possible to the point of extinction, just like the Dinosaurs !

When I started my Loco, the boiler offered was £320 but now its £1400 and a years wait, was that the whole point of this legislation?

I went through the Din 9000 Accreditation at the firm I worked for and it was costing £2000 + a day just to essay words in a folder detailing procedures that were procededures we had carried out for years.

As to listing the materials and points of origin for the making of a boiler, try backtrackig and see how far you get.

Clive

mick H22/11/2012 09:34:19
382 forum posts
1 photos

The intention is not to change the boiler test procedure but to make the code more user friendly and consider any amendments that may be beneficial in the light of several years operational experience.

In my opinion the above statement is totally disingenuous.

The primary legislation, PSSR 2000 does indeed require all boilers, regardless of size, to undergo a written scheme of examination and we are stuck with that as it is the law of the land . The test code devised by MELG is not law but an over complex set of procedures, which I suspect will shortly be imposed on model engineers with little or no prior consultation. These procedures, aside from the mountain of paperwork that will be accumulated will also cause severe problems for model engineers who do not have access to club boiler inspectors. I note that the insurance industry is significantly represented on the panel and I ask , Is this a case of the Insurance Industry "Tail" wagging the MELG "Dog"? Thinly veiled threats such as.....

The only time you are going to find out for absolute certainty is after a serious incident and not only will you be in trouble with HSE if you have got it wrong but any insurance you have may well be voidable........ makes me suspicious. And as we know, the insurance Industry is most adept at sucking more and more hard earned money into their clack valves.

On the bright (?) side, I note that in the V10 version of the proposed code, "small boilers" require an initial 2 x WP hydraulic test then a further 1.5 x WP test when fitted up which will be valid for the life of the boiler. Unfortunately, an annual steam test is also required, carried out by........yes....our old friend the boiler inspector. The 16mm fraternity have "self certified" annual steam tests (for how long, I wonder) and their safety record is exemplary . Why not carry this over into the new test code.

On an even brighter note, if the boiler is only to be used at home then no tests whatsoever are required (although it would be sensible for beginners to have their work checked) which will keep you out of the clutches of the H & S lot and the insurance companies. I suspect that this will happen more and more as we are inundated by unwarranted and pettyfogging regulation even by those we thought were on our side.

Mick

Edited By mick H on 22/11/2012 09:35:52

Gordon W22/11/2012 09:53:04
966 forum posts

I have always been confused by the model boiler testing regs. I have no intention of ever running "in public" ,just as well, as far as I know there isn't a club within 200 miles. I have designed pressure vessels, and worked for a full-sized boiler making firm. I can do all the calcs. to my own satisfaction and carry out hydraulic tests. I am thinking about the safety valve, is this tested ? if so how? Just to be clear I will not be needing to run in public, this is just for interest.

jason udall22/11/2012 10:21:35
1498 forum posts
31 photos
Posted by Tony Wood 4 on 21/11/2012 14:14:31:

Referring to the point raised about small boilers. The testing of boilers in the UK is ‘governed’ by the Pressure Systems Safety Regulations 2000 (PSSR 2000) and PSSR 2000 applies anywhere where the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974 applies. This basically means that by law your boiler must be tested unless it is used for purely hobby activities in a none work environment........................

Unlike other pressure vessels, where there is a minimum pressure under which the PSSR 2000 does not apply, PSSR 2000 applies to steam boilers regardless of the operating pressure which mean that the smallest boilers running at very low pressure must be tested in accordance with the Regulations in exactly the same way as a large industrial steam boiler running at very high pressure, for example a school science laboratory that has a Mamod must have that tested in exactly the same way as the steam boiler providing the school heating.

. Not intending to shoot the messinger but this is very much like other legislation..it apperas not to have been read through..

" Unlike other pressure vessels, where there is a minimum pressure under which the PSSR 2000 does not apply, PSSR 2000 applies to steam boilers regardless of the operating pressure "

1.. Why?

2 When does a kettle become a pressure vessel / boiler? note the "regardless of the operating pressure"....

3 If we used a working fluid other than water would our boilers be exempt?

I am new to steam , but the 3 bar/L thing looks sensible..but is exceeded by 2 L fizzy pop containers and champanye bottles....

Agreed the heat content of "live" steem is significant and poses a real hazard .

but surely "the tepid fog" many of us tinker with would benifit from a sense of scale...

Ompa Ompa22/11/2012 17:37:59
43 forum posts
1 photos

Just an observation that I hope will not give the impression I have any hidden agenda on this topic. Is anyone able to offer any ideas on how many actual club members from either of the National groups has actually been given the chance to look at the draft copy of the proposed 'new book'. As a club belonging now to the NAMES group we had draft copies sent out to our delegate, being the delegate concerned I then passed them on to our boiler testing team for their comments. So at least in my own Society we were and are aware of what was proposed to be the final re-printed book. I understand that this may not have been the case with one of the other National groups who indirectly, (it is alleged) had a big say in what was included, particularly with the written scheme of examination document. Just food for thought from an interested observer.

ChrisH22/11/2012 21:11:16
336 forum posts
3 photos

Gordon W has a good point. So,if one has the capability to design and do the calcs for a boiler but if you don' t belong to a club with an 'in-store' tame boiler inspector, for whatever reason, then what? Who do you get to check over the calcs and design?

Plus, if you do manage to devise a traceable paper trail for the materials then what? Who do you get to do the in build inspections, hydraulic test and steaming test?

Serious queries - I am not a member of of any club at present but do want to build a boiler!

Chris

Stub Mandrel22/11/2012 21:30:47
avatar
4313 forum posts
292 photos

We all know the hazards, but what is the risk?

Is there any data on the number of model boiler failures, the nature and number of injuries caused and the cost of settlements. Indeed is there any information on which of these incidents involved tested boilers and which did not.

Furthermore, is there any information to show how the rate of incidents per boiler insured has dropped with the introduction of each new set of regulations?

Neil

ChrisH22/11/2012 22:08:51
336 forum posts
3 photos

Exactly Neil, what has been the record on safety? Is there a pressing need for new legislation based on documented accidents, or is this, as has been suggested, yet another  step down the road of the nanny/big brother state?

Chris

Edited By ChrisH on 22/11/2012 22:09:52

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Latest Forum Posts
Support Our Partners
ArcEuro Trade
Ausee.com.au
Warco
PaulTheCad
G and M tools
TRANSWAVE Converters
emcomachinetools
Allendale Electronics
Eccentric Engineering
Advertise With Us
Noggin End Metals
Latest "For Sale" Ads
Latest "Wanted" Ads
Digital Back Issues

Subscription Offers
Social Media online

'Like' us on Facebook
Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter
 Twitter Logo

Pin us on Pinterest

Visit the Model Engineer
Exhibition website

Model Engineer Exhibition