By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by allandale

Starter Switch

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
Andy Sproule12/10/2017 16:14:24
79 forum posts
20 photos

img_2720.jpgimg_2715.jpgimg_2714.jpgimg_2713.jpgHigher resolution pics.Sorry to bother you all again

Is the wireing in the sketch now correct?Do the wires already attached stay the same and the black wire from A1 go into 1L1?img_2712.jpg

SillyOldDuffer12/10/2017 18:37:20
2010 forum posts
442 photos

Andy,

I hope someone else will confirm because my experience is limited in this area!

I believe that the circuit posted by Brian is correct and it is necessary to use all 3 thermal cut-outs. That's because. if I understand the blurb correctly, the CI9 detects single phase dropouts as well as overloads.

Ignoring the wiring that powers the contactor itself, I think it should look like this:

contactor.jpg

Happy to be told I'm wrong. If I were you I'd test it by wiring a table lamp to the motor L and N with a 3A plug on the input side. If it works the lamp OK, move on to the motor .

Dave

Brian Sweeting12/10/2017 19:46:21
95 forum posts

SOD, yes that is correct, good picture.

SillyOldDuffer12/10/2017 20:13:10
2010 forum posts
442 photos
Posted by Brian Sweeting on 12/10/2017 19:46:21:

SOD, yes that is correct, ...

Phew! Thanks Brian, I had my fingers crossed.

Dave

Andy Sproule13/10/2017 01:01:08
79 forum posts
20 photos

SOD thank you for doing that couldn't be clearer.Wired it up to light first soon as I turned power on at mains the coil kicked in and the light came on and it would not disengage when I pressed the stop button.Tried it hooked up to motor the motor tried to start but then stopped.Hooked it back up to light now light won't come on.Any ideas?

Mike Poole13/10/2017 08:47:12
avatar
888 forum posts
25 photos

teb1116217.jpgHas the overload tripped? Stop button should reset o/l. Coil should not energise as soon as you apply power the start and stop button both need to be in circuit and the auxiliary contact makes a seal by being in parallel with the start button, this is a classic circuit and there are plenty of diagrams of it on the net.

Mike

Edited By Mike Poole on 13/10/2017 08:49:00

SillyOldDuffer13/10/2017 10:34:04
2010 forum posts
442 photos
Posted by Andy Sproule on 13/10/2017 01:01:08:

SOD thank you for doing that couldn't be clearer.Wired it up to light first soon as I turned power on at mains the coil kicked in and the light came on and it would not disengage when I pressed the stop button.Tried it hooked up to motor the motor tried to start but then stopped.Hooked it back up to light now light won't come on.Any ideas?

Hi Andy,

As Mike says the coil shouldn't kick in. I think the motor/power part of the wiring is correct and there's something wrong with the control & on/off switch connections. We need to look at the wiring on the right hand side of the contactor. Can you put up some photos please?

contactorsw.jpg

What's needed is close to the circuit on the right hand side of Mike's post. Bit confusing because that's for a 3-phase set-up and you have single-phase.

I think you want this:

contactorctrl.jpg

Where,

  • A1 and A2 are the contactor coil.
  • 95 and 96 are the terminals on the thermal cutout
  • 3 and 4 are the terminals on the right hand side of the contactor
  • L and N are the mains input ( L1 and L3 on the contactor)

The unknown is the ON/OFF switch. With luck it will have terminal pairs marked 'NO' for normally open and 'NC' for normally closed. A photo would help.

WARNING! I've assumed that your contactor coil is mains operated and won't burn out when mains is applied. My experience is with relays rather than contactors, where the relay coil is worked by a lower voltage than is being switched.) Given the diagrams published by Mike and Brian, I think I'm on safe ground but I'd be grateful if a contactor expert could confirm please!

Dave

duncan webster13/10/2017 11:48:19
avatar
1180 forum posts
21 photos

Where is 95? SOD's diagram agrees with Mike Poole's, but suggests that 95 and 96 should be shorted together as they are to allow an external stop switch. It certainly should not operate as soon as the mains is connected. The only way this can happen is if 3 & 4 have been shorted

Andy Sproule13/10/2017 11:49:40
79 forum posts
20 photos

img_2726.jpgSod I wired it as in your picture. Also A1 is connected to 1L1 and 5L5 is connected to 96 just above red button.There are no wires connected to 3 and 4 on the on the right hand side on off switch.img_2725.jpg

SillyOldDuffer13/10/2017 12:01:42
2010 forum posts
442 photos
Posted by duncan webster on 13/10/2017 11:48:19:

Where is 95? SOD's diagram agrees with Mike Poole's, but suggests that 95 and 96 should be shorted together as they are to allow an external stop switch. ...

Hi Duncan,

I think 95 is near 96 on the right hand side but hidden underneath. If you look closely there's a black wire in Andy's photo leading to it.

95 and 96 are a normally closed switch inside the thermal cutout. It opens on overload, phase loss, or if the red button is pressed. (The red button may also be a reset, to be pushed after an overload?)

Dave

Andy Sproule13/10/2017 12:06:34
79 forum posts
20 photos

SORRY correction from last post 5L5 SHOULD HAVE BEEN 5L3.Hi Duncan,this is a pic of the underside 95 on the right is connected to A2 by that black wire.96 is connected to 5L3 by blue wire.img_2727.jpg

SillyOldDuffer13/10/2017 12:39:28
2010 forum posts
442 photos
Posted by Andy Sproule on 13/10/2017 11:49:40:

img_2726.jpgSod I wired it as in your picture. Also A1 is connected to 1L1 and 5L5 is connected to 96 just above red button.There are no wires connected to 3 and 4 on the on the right hand side on off switch.img_2725.jpg

Hi Andy,

'Also A1 is connected to 1L1 and 5L5 is connected to 96 just above red button.'

That explains why the coil operates. It's connected directly across L and N. Good news because it makes sense even though it's not right.

With a lamp as the load, try this:

  • Disconnect A2 at the 5L3 end and reconnect the wire to 95.
  • Disconnect A1 at the 1L1 end and reconnect the wire to 5L3. A1 is now mains neutral.
  • Confirm 96 is wired to the ON/OFF switch
  • Confirm the ON/OFF switch has mains L on the other side, i.e is connected to 1L1
  • Cross fingers, apply power, and press ON

'There are no wires connected to 3 and 4 on the on the right hand side on off switch.'

3 and 4 are auxiliary contacts needed to latch the contactor on when the ON button is a momentary type (like a push switch that goes on when you press it and off as soon as you let go.) With luck you may not need 3 and 4 . It depends on whether or not your ON/OFF switch physically latches when pressed. Try it and see. If lamp only stays on whilst the ON button is held down, we will need to wire in 3 and 4.

Once the lamp is properly controlled by the ON/OFF switch, try connecting the motor. (There may be a problem in that department too, but let's get the contactor working properly before worrying about it.)

Dave

Emgee13/10/2017 13:38:25
626 forum posts
152 photos

Hi Andy

Best and safer for you to have someone call round and connect the starter for you, it seems you may get there in the end but it all makes painfull reading.

You haven't confirmed yet the overload rating is suitable for the new single phase motor.

Just post your postcode and maybe a forum member with electrical knowledge will help you out.
Failing that suggest you contact a local electrician.

Emgee

Brian Sweeting13/10/2017 14:25:24
95 forum posts

It is often safer to remove all previous wiring and start afresh following a wiring diagram.

Mike Poole13/10/2017 19:29:07
avatar
888 forum posts
25 photos

The overland unit you are using has a current range of 1.2A to 1.9A if the FLC (full load current) of the motor you are using is higher than this then you need a new overload unit. If you look at the rating plate on your motor is should specify the FLC of the motor, I suspect that if this was correctly sized for the 3 phase motor on the bandsaw and you have replaced with a same horsepower single phase then the FLC will be too high for that overload and that is why tripped.

Mike

Andy Sproule14/10/2017 18:26:34
79 forum posts
20 photos

Well folks the the saw is up and running.Thank you all for your help.Dave thank you for sticking with it.

SillyOldDuffer14/10/2017 18:34:09
2010 forum posts
442 photos
Posted by Andy Sproule on 14/10/2017 18:26:34:

Well folks the the saw is up and running.Thank you all for your help.Dave thank you for sticking with it.

Well done Andy - very satisfying when something reluctant is coaxed back into service!

Dave

Brian Sweeting14/10/2017 18:47:03
95 forum posts

Well done Andy, it must be tricky getting it going again with so many people in the workshop with you. laugh

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!

Find Model Engineer & Model Engineers' Workshop

Email News - Join our newsletter

Love Model Engineering? Sign up to our emails for the latest news and special offers!

Latest Forum Posts
Support Our Partners
SPG Tools October Seventeen
Meridienne Mid Mod Eng Show. Aug 21
Expo Tools July 14
Shapiro
Ausee.com.au
Warco
TRANSWAVE Converters
Allendale Electronics
Reeves 2000
PaulTheCad
ChesterUK
Eccentric Engineering
emcomachinetools
Subscription Offer

Latest "For Sale" Ads
Latest "Wanted" Ads
Get In Touch!

Do you want to contact the Model Engineer and Model Engineers' Workshop team?

You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.

Click THIS LINK for full contact details.

For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.

Digital Back Issues

Social Media online

'Like' us on Facebook
Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter
 Twitter Logo

Pin us on Pinterest

Visit the Model Engineer
Exhibition website

Model Engineer Exhibition