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injector problems still

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Ron Hancock14/02/2017 17:57:51
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Posted by Ron Hancock on 14/02/2017 17:57:27:

img_1278.jpgimg_0207.jpg

Ron Hancock14/02/2017 18:05:00
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Well boiler off and filled with citric acid and hot water hoping it will get rid of the green gunk inside.

whilst boiler is of going to connect axle pump fed up trying to rely on injectors so will just useone injector one hand pump and axle pump.

It would be nice to just be able to run it without water problems.

If it does not work after this will take to B P Steam see if Ben can sort loosing patence after so many problems.

Wish i new why it's getting so much green gunk inside as its only run 4 times two of them never got out of steam bay.

I think it must be the green gunk causing the problems is their anything you can put in the water to stop it please

Ron

Ron Hancock14/02/2017 18:06:34
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Posted by Ron Hancock on 13/02/2017 15:19:20:

me and black 5 notts club rugeley.jpg

pulling my hair out and don't have much

Ron Hancock14/02/2017 18:11:54
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Posted by duncan webster on 13/02/2017 15:44:17:

Can't help on injectors, but I wouldn't put caustic soda in a copper boiler. This website suggests it attacks both copper and brazed joints.

**LINK**

If nothing else, any spalshes will attack paint.

Edited By duncan webster on 13/02/2017 15:44:33

That was intresting to read i did wash out after with the citric acid and a lot clean water flushing with hose after.

we have a industrial chemist at our club it was his suggestion to get rid of flux being a new boiler.

Ron

Ron Hancock14/02/2017 19:25:32
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Hi on 5" site face book several saying you should never clean a boiler out with citric acid and that you should only use white viniger as the citric acid makes the boiler produce the green slime inside the boiler.

can any of you guys tell me if this is correct please.

i had already filled with water and citric acid poured it into a bucket tiny few bits but hardly anything in bucket.

now put white viniger in to soak hope it stops the green after this.

Ron

julian atkins14/02/2017 20:12:29
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I am sending Ron one of my working spare injectors again, and Ron will send me his commercial injector that failed at the weekend.

There is nothing wrong with Ron's loco's pipework etc as when I sent him one of my working spare injectors previously it worked perfectly on his loco.

When I examine Ron's commercial injector I will provide a full report on what is found.

Ron, I dont think you needed to take off the boiler and clean it out in advance of a detailed inspection of the injector.

I have had over 30 years happy steaming of miniature locos without resort to axle or handpumps, relying just on the injectors fitted.

I think Ron's re-connecting of the axle pump is a good thing in his case. Unfortunately one of my working spare injectors that Ron found so successful, compared to the commercial gadgets he had bought, resulted in a decision to disconnect the axlepump by Ron.

In a week or so's time we will know whether the commercial injector is at fault, or 'foreign bodies' inside, or perhaps something else.

Cheers,

Julian

Ron Hancock14/02/2017 20:38:11
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on the 5" siteThank you Julian yes the one I borrowed of you last time whilst you do my other worked fine.

I wish I had kept it till you did my other one as at least I could have been running.

I have boiler of I left for an hour in citric acid them poured into clean bucket very tiny amount bits in hard to even see.

Their was a lot green inside that's now gone but they said citric acid causes a reaction that makes it grow green inside.

They say I must use white viniger to stop it what do you think.

Tomorrow will connect the axle pump hope it gives me another option if injector fails again.

Thank you Julian

Ron

julian atkins15/02/2017 23:07:12
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Hi Ron,

Citric acid grows something if left untreated. It is best flushed out then treated with bleach if on a boiler, then washed out considerably.

I use citric acid on injectors send to me that require cleaning. I dont use vinegar.

I think the particular problem with commercial injectors currently is that apart from the Len Steel (Chiverton) injectors marketed by Paul Pavier, most current commercial products on sale are far inferior to what was available 20-30 years ago.

I have no connection with Paul Pavier and Len Steel, and usual disclaimer.

I did recommend to Ron that he ordered his injectors from Paul Pavier of Len Steel 'make' (there is quite a long waiting list, and a higher price) but Ron opted instead for other makes.

Cheers,

Julian

Ron Hancock16/02/2017 11:15:30
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Hi Julian I did order from him but 5 months and was still waiting so bought one from Blackgates.

I have already washed in Citric Acid then I have left to soak in white Viniger.

Got to still pipe up axle pump and refit boiler will recipe making sure no air leaks.

Will clean injector before sending to Julian.

Hope finally to find the problem.

Thanks Julian.

Hope after this injector and the one your making a new cone for that one will work I can enjoy running this summer

Ron Hancock16/02/2017 19:23:41
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488 forum posts
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Well an update on my injector problems i had removed the boiler and cleaned with the citric acid just a very little bit of much came out.

I then put white viniger in left 24 hours so much rubbish came out all the green inside has gone vineger looked like muddy water.

I looked in one injector found rubbish inside so cleand and gave a good blow out with air gun now spotless clean hope it will work.

I checked the other injector and found a cone missing so tottaly my fault dont know how as trying very hard but eyesigh at nearly 70 not so good.

I now have boiler back on most of pipe work connected will do the rest tomorrow i hope need the re do tender pipe work as i blanked of for axle pump as i was trying to use two tenders.

I will steam up once back together and blow down a couple times then check also the axle pump is working ok as going to run on blocks hopefully i can run next wed and see how it is then.

Fingers crossed that we are a little nearer summer soon here hope it can run with not too many problems now.

Ron

julian atkins16/02/2017 23:55:36
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Hi Ron,

Before next Wednesday we could swap injectors! I will send you one of mine as a spare anyway.

Cheers,

Julian

Ron Hancock17/02/2017 09:19:55
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Posted by julian atkins on 16/02/2017 23:55:36:

Hi Ron,

Before next Wednesday we could swap injectors! I will send you one of mine as a spare anyway.

Cheers,

Julian

Thank you Julian maybe one of the cones from the other one of mine you have will fit this one and will be able to make one injector ready to work.

Ron

Ron Hancock17/02/2017 16:22:58
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Posted by Ron Hancock on 13/02/2017 17:41:48:
ronPosted by Mark P. on 13/02/2017 17:14:03:
Ron, try boiling them for half an hour in vinegar, it has worked well for me in the past. Don't put the used vinegar on your chips though!
Mark P.

Thanks for the Tip but they look spotless inside after citric acid

Hi Mark well i used the white viniger in boiler so much muck came out very surprised as i had used citric acid before. I have even put it in tender over night trying to make sure thats as clean.

Also did the injector and gave it a good blow our hope next wed when i try to run will get afew laps in especially now i have fitted the axle pump praying that works big mistake not trying first but the pump was already fitted just needed piping up.

Well hopefully injector will work bought a new one from Reeves waiting for delivery just got the Tender pipe work to change as i had blanked of as was using two injectors but now using one plus axle pump and Hand pump.

Thank you again for advice had a lot say i should not use Vineger but it was already in and results speak for themselfs no green just clean boiler so Thank you #Ron

Ron Hancock17/02/2017 16:24:42
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488 forum posts
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Posted by Ron Hancock on 13/02/2017 17:41:48:
ronPosted by Mark P. on 13/02/2017 17:14:03:
Ron, try boiling them for half an hour in vinegar, it has worked well for me in the past. Don't put the used vinegar on your chips though!
Mark P.

Thanks for the Tip but they look spotless inside after citric acid

Hi Mark well i used the white viniger in boiler so much muck came out very surprised as i had used citric acid before. I have even put it in tender over night trying to make sure thats as clean.

Also did the injector and gave it a good blow our hope next wed when i try to run will get afew laps in especially now i have fitted the axle pump praying that works big mistake not trying first but the pump was already fitted just needed piping up.

Well hopefully injector will work bought a new one from Reeves waiting for delivery just got the Tender pipe work to change as i had blanked of as was using two injectors but now using one plus axle pump and Hand pump.

Thank you again for advice had a lot say i should not use Vineger but it was already in and results speak for themselfs no green just clean boiler so Thank you #Ron

Ron Hancock17/02/2017 16:37:57
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488 forum posts
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Well good day today been in workshop all day made new fitting for under dome finished all the pipework everything back together but my injector the nuts not long enough and thread damaged my stupid fault so ordered a new injector from Reeves 2000 hoping to get it tomorrow.

?Hoping to get back in workshop tomorrow and sort tender out as blanked piping of as was not using axle pump.

the axle pump is piped back in as i had blanked it off but should have removed it and tested it why do i only think of it afterwards.

damaged the good injector from reeves 2000 the nut split so tried normal pipe nut but was only on a couple threads and you guesed it damages thread need to make new nut and extend so i can use in emergancy.

in the mean time oredered a new injector from reeves 2000 so i can Run wed at the club desperate to get a few laps in.

just hope i get tender done tomorrow so its ready to run again.

Ron

Howard Lewis18/02/2017 13:03:16
646 forum posts

Any Copper salt (Copper + Acid) will be blue or green. Citric acid and Vinegar (weak Acetic acid) are used for cleaning / pickling, since they don't dissolve metal as fast as the stronger acids such as Sulphuric, Hydrochloric, and Nitric.

Whatever you use, thorough washing is essential. Otherwise the risk is that the acid will loosen scale which will later find its way into somewhere it should not be. Then you will be worse off than when you started! (This is Newton's fourth law, the law of the eternal cussedness of things, variously attributed to Murphy, or to Sod, in action)

Howard

Ron Hancock20/02/2017 21:20:03
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Well today i tried to steam her up to try it but found it leaking steam can't remember what the valve is called very simler to a clack valve but lets air in fitted in smoke box. Removed it and put to soak in citric acid over night as lot of carbon in it. Lets hope tomorrow brings better luck still hoping to run her Wed at our club but want to run on blocks he before don't like the disapointment when i have trouble.will have to refit front Bogie wheels had to remove so could find the problem. Tomorrow should get the Injector from Julian Atkins. I so looking forward to trying hope fully get a good run wed but will steam tomorrow again to see.

julian atkins21/02/2017 00:13:37
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Hi Ron,

I think the faulty valve is the snifting valve from your description. Generally they dont ever cause a problem. I have had not had a snifting valve cause any problems on various locos in over 30 years.

Unfortunately I was called into work earlier than my planned shift so didnt have an opportunity to get to the Post Office.

Cheers,

Julian

Ron Hancock21/02/2017 04:00:15
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488 forum posts
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Hi julian yes it is the snifter Valve first time i have had a problem with it i removed it it was full of crud probably becouse its mounted underneath the smoke box so picking up from underneath.

After soaking it citric acid it looks like new blowing through it seems fine again will refit it tomorrow and keep fingers crossed.

I am hoping the Injector will come from reeves tomorrow don't have much faith in this one from Blackgates.

Did you have any luck with my other Injector it must be so hard to turn a tiny cone like that could never do it on my Lathe.

Still could not beleive how loose it was i should have just returned it they should have sorted it out not right asking you to do such a dificult Job.

I am hoping tomorrow i can get steam up and try axle pump to see it it works fingers crossed it has to be getting near now.

Ron

julian atkins21/02/2017 23:22:37
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Working spare posted to Ron Tuesday morning first class post.

Cheers,

Julian

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